A Darkening of Mirkwood Geo-Strategical question

[Magogue]

So, after running a Hobbit mini-campaign (thanks for all the helpful ideas from the forum - at the end of it, It was something Willow influenced, with a royal child refugee from a Dunland succesion war), my players requested a full sized one and I am happy to oblige.

So I've read through the wonderfull and engaging Darkening of Mirkwood, and understood that if things shall come to a final battle against Dol-Guldur, my players shall immediatly organize an expedition to recruit Lothlorien for the just cause. And that I have little or no ways to stall it. Galadriel is both capable, willing and without major distraction, and while the enchantments of the Golden Forest should definetly provide a challange for a bunch of woodsmen, it certainly won't be an impassable one, especcially with Radagast as an ally. So, any ideas?

[Corvo]

Hi Magogue,

interesting question: I'll give you my point of view, with the usual caveats (ie, it's just my opinion, etc).

Galadriel... is she really willing to do it?
Face a war? Bring her people against Dol Guldur?

Even during the War of The Ring she wasn't keen on getting directly involved: I mean, there was The One Ring there, and she gave mostly indirect help to the ringbearer.

I think that Galadriel wouldn't risk her personal or military might in an open battle against Dol Guldur when she got a resurrected Mordor to the south.

Remember: she has witnessed many useless victories and tragic defeats, and the number of the firstborn is dwindling. But most important of it all, she knows that Sauron cannot be defeated. It's that terrible truth that probably will stay her hand.
I think that she can feel pity for the Woodmen, but their lost cause isn't worth the pain and sorrow of her people.

[Magogue]

But we know that she was willing to risk it, succesfully and against much stronger oposition (Sauron himself) at 2944. And we know that her alliance won.

Since Sauron returned to Mordor with power, it seems to me that stopping any influence of his agents in the close surroundings will be a priority. And we know that at the end of the War of the Ring, Lothlorien was thrice besieged by Dol Guldur, and then repelled and Galadriel "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits". Being one of the wise, and able of some sort of foretelling, I think it would be hard for her to ignore that the Hill of Sorcery is not some sort of an abstract evil, but an immediate danger to her Realm.

I can imagine the Darkening going under her nose until it too late, but I still find it difficult to imagine her refusing a direct call to help...

Unless...
Unless her wisdom and precognition tells her exactly that it is impossible to win now, in that practicular circumstances. And if that is so, she will tell it to the the expedition. Which maybe could make the doomed assault even more tragic.

[Corvo]

But we know that she was willing to risk it, succesfully and against much stronger oposition (Sauron himself) at 2944. And we know that her alliance won.

You are right. I think of later Galadriel but forget about her in 2941.
Let me think about that apparent contradiction...
Maybe she feel that her alliance didn't won in 2941?
In '41 Sauron was apparently weak, yet he was able to foresee their very moves and flee from Dol Guldur undefeated. Just to delude them and look weak. Maybe she realized that in '41 the White Council wasn't the hunter, yet the prey of a cunning enemy.

In '76 Sauron is clearly stronger. Far stronger than they dared to imagine just 30 years earlier. And probably Sauron can foresee every move of her. Is that new attack on Dol Guldur a trap? A trap for her and her ring maybe?
She had to be very careful. With the lives of her people and with her power, because Sauron crave to crush them.

What do you think of this hypothesis?

(...)
Unless...
Unless her wisdom and precognition tells her exactly that it is impossible to win now, in that practicular circumstances. And if that is so, she will tell it to the the expedition. Which maybe could make the doomed assault even more tragic.

Tragic indeed.
I'm wondering if some groups will feel that answer a bit too much "deterministic".

[Glorelendil]

I'm with Corvo. I don't think she'll help. Maybe she'll send words of wisdom, in the form of a riddle.

Maybe you could reserve her "help" as a kind of deus ex machina (in the form of a band of elves) to get the heroes out of trouble if they need it.

But make the heroes think she's too busy or not interested or has to organize her sock drawer or something.

Also, in '41 it was Gandalf asking for help, not some adventurers.

[Magogue]

Well, I guess that at the point they'll be asking for help, they won't be some adventurers but respected emissaries or leaders of a neighbouring people.

But it is an interesting point of view. Of course, it is nothing urgent, since the very need and possibility will arise only at the end of the Darkening, but I'll certainly keep those point in mind when bringing the Wildlands to life.

It is interesting how much can maps change our appraisal of plots. Lothlorien is not decipted as a part of the Wildlands power structure, since the Lothlorien Elves are not a playable culture yet, yet it have to be. In the same way - before running my previous game I never noticed how close is the Shire to Dunland.

[Heilemann]

To my understanding, they would be lucky to be let into Lothlórien, let alone talk to Galadriel. How do they even know about Lothlórien?

[Mytholder]

I can think of several options that might work, depending on your campaign.

1) The Way is Shut.
If the PCs only think of going to Lorien when the threat of Dol Guldur is at its height, then you can just flood the lands south of the Gladden Fields with orcs, spies and other threats. Just getting to Lorien in those months might be a tremendous challenge. You could adapt the final adventure sequence from Darkening, so instead of carrying the Lamp to Rivendell, the PCs have to bring a plea to Galadriel. I'd look to the Silmarillion for parallels, too - this is Earandil's plea to the Valar writ small.

2) They Won't Help, Say The Wise
Radagast points out that Galadriel put forth the full measure of her power in the assault on Dol Guldur in 2941; she needs time to recuperate. It is all she can do to protect her Golden Wood; there is no strength in her to project that power beyond that.

3) A Foresight Is On Me
This one fits with the books, but is likely to frustrate your players - Galadriel just says that 'now is not the time', and that the fate of mortal men is outside her purview.

4) Lorien's not where you think it is.
It's a magic wood. Maybe it's harder to find than you think. Just travelling down the Anduin won't always bring you to Lorien, especially if they don't want to be found.

5) It's A Trap
Have the PCs find evidence that they're doing _exactly_ what Dol Guldur wants. Maybe the Nazgul have enslaved the orcs of the Misty Mountains - if Galadriel and Celeborn and their host march east, then every orc from Goblin Town to Mount Gram will swarm into Lorien and burn the Golden Wood. Destroying the last land of the High Elves east of the Mountains would be worth sacrificing his forward outpost at Dol Guldur, in the eye of the Enemy.

[Valarian]

^^ And this is why he writes the adventures folks.

I'd look to the Silmarillion for parallels, too - this is Earandil's plea to the Valar writ small.

I love this one. They may enter Lorién. This doesn't mean that they will be permitted to leave again. A nice retirement in the comfort and peace of the Golden Wood and roll up some new characters. Great way to end a campaign.

[Magogue]

Gareth, thank you very much. It is a wonderful tool box, espessialy the first and the last possibility. I'll keep them all in my mind, and as a text document as well.

I wonder how long shall this journey last. We shall start in two weeks, probably as a remote village in the woodlands, close to, and beset by extortion demands from, the newly established power at Tyrant Hill.