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On the LM map, Rivendell is shown as both a location, like Beorn's House or Erebor, and a region, like Coldshaws or West Anduin Vales.

For the purposes of clarity, is there a way to distinguish between the two? Should I just go with "Rivendell" and "Rivendell Region"?

Or call Elrond's house "The Last Homely House" and use "Rivendell" for the region?

(This if for my mapping project, FYI.)

I would mark Rivendell as a location, and the area it is in as Eregion.

Beran wrote:I would mark Rivendell as a location, and the area it is in as Eregion.

Hmm...am I forgetting my lore or was Eregion the kingdom that got destroyed in the war, with the survivors fleeing to RIvendell?

EDIT: Yeah, I just looked it up. Eregion is way to the south of Imladris. Bummer...that would have been a good solution.

I think I'm going to go with "The Last Homely House" and "Rivendell" for now.

Well, as I understand it, Rivendell is in fact a Region of itself. It is located between Rhudaur and Eregion (and it may be included as part of the former), but it is like Monaco, Andorra, the Vatican,... a kind of city-state.

Yes, it was founded when Elrond and a bunch of elven refugees escaped Ost-in-Edhil and the elven kingdom of Eregion during the Second Age, when Annatar revealed himself as Sauron and attacked to retrieve the Rings from Celebrimbor. In a way, Rivendell is all that's left of the former Eregion and, if you want to push the concept far. But, to be honest, I just think that Rivendell lies in Rivendell, not in any other region.

The way I understand it, this map shows quite well what the Rivendell region is:
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo34 ... 1249613154

I suppose the region could be distinguished as the Valley of RIvendell, whereas the refuge itself is also known as Imladris (and as Karningul in true Westron).

The name Rivendell is derived from archaic English, meaning 'deeply cut valley'. This is also the meaning of its elvish name, 'Imladris', and the Westron name 'Karningul'.

So it's the name of the valley and the outpost within.

I understand that they are both technically called "Rivendell" but that's not very useful information for people looking at an index.

This seems to be an opinion question, as it's not really a reflection of what actually constitutes "Rivendell" proper, rather what works best for map labels.

So I would say: Rivendell for the region and Imladris for the Last Homely House itself.

I realize this is not probably a proper definition, but Imladris, i think, will fit better in a database and on a map than "Last Homely House" (and is easier, more precise search term)

Rocmistro wrote:This seems to be an opinion question, as it's not really a reflection of what actually constitutes "Rivendell" proper, rather what works best for map labels.

So I would say: Rivendell for the region and Imladris for the Last Homely House itself.

I realize this is not probably a proper definition, but Imladris, i think, will fit better in a database and on a map than "Last Homely House" (and is easier, more precise search term)

Well, I'm thinking about adding a column to the database for "native tongue" translations...Imladris, Khazad-dum, etc. I can then make a smart index that would recognize when different words mean the same thing.

Otaku-sempai wrote:I suppose the region could be distinguished as the Valley of RIvendell, whereas the refuge itself is also known as Imladris (and as Karningul in true Westron).

I'd go with this.

By the way, where did you find the name in Westron. I've never read anywhere the name Karningul.
And while Imladris is elvish (sindarin, I guess), what language is Rivendell? I thought Rivendell was Westron...