forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive


https://forums.cubicle7.co.uk/

Middle Earth Calendar

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1829

Page 1 of 2

Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:54 pm
by Glorelendil
I know there are many different calendars in use in Middle Earth, and even the ones that most closely resemble our system have some different names in use, but assuming we're using the modern equivalents, is there any evidence in the texts that correlate a day of the week to a specific date? If I can get one concrete date, such as "in 2944 May 8th was a Tuesday" then I can deduce all the others.

Well...almost: leap years. In the absence of specific evidence, then gathering some other day : date correlations will point to the leap years.

Anybody?

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:27 pm
by Stormcrow
Keeping in mind the Shire-calendar as detailed in Appendix D of The Lord of the Rings: "Then the weather clouded over. That was on Wednesday the eve of the Party. Anxiety was intense. Then Thursday, September 22nd, actually dawned." Appendix B tells us this was in T.A. 3001, or S.R. 1401. It also mentions that for hobbits Thursday and Friday correspond to our Saturday and Sunday, so Bilbo's party on Thursday was like us having a party on a Saturday.

From The Hobbit we know that the Unexpected Party occurs on Wednesday ("Gandalf Tea Wednesday"), and that the previous Thursday was the 21st of April ("And Thrain your father went away on the twenty-first of April, a hundred years ago last Thursday..." Thus, April 21 of that year was a Thursday (which does not match with Shire Reckoning in LR, meaning the days of the week have probably been translated for us). That year was, according to the Tale of Years, T.A. 2941, or S.R. 1341.

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:05 pm
by Glorelendil
Stormcrow wrote:Keeping in mind the Shire-calendar as detailed in Appendix D of The Lord of the Rings: "Then the weather clouded over. That was on Wednesday the eve of the Party. Anxiety was intense. Then Thursday, September 22nd, actually dawned." Appendix B tells us this was in T.A. 3001, or S.R. 1401. It also mentions that for hobbits Thursday and Friday correspond to our Saturday and Sunday, so Bilbo's party on Thursday was like us having a party on a Saturday.

From The Hobbit we know that the Unexpected Party occurs on Wednesday ("Gandalf Tea Wednesday"), and that the previous Thursday was the 21st of April ("And Thrain your father went away on the twenty-first of April, a hundred years ago last Thursday..." Thus, April 21 of that year was a Thursday (which does not match with Shire Reckoning in LR, meaning the days of the week have probably been translated for us). That year was, according to the Tale of Years, T.A. 2941, or S.R. 1341.
Awesome! Thank you! I seemed to remember the party having a day mentioned.

This is perfect...I can extrapolate the calendar from this.

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:38 pm
by Stormcrow
Any reason you can't use the calendar in LR?

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:44 pm
by Glorelendil
Stormcrow wrote:Any reason you can't use the calendar in LR?
I just want to be able to ask (for example), "What day of the week is March 17th, 2952?" and get the right answer. So, yes, I want to use the calendar in LotR, but for any date.

Or am I not understanding your question?

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:31 pm
by Stormcrow
Read the appendix carefully. The Shire calendar was arranged so that every date always had the same day of the week.

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 11:01 pm
by Glorelendil
Stormcrow wrote:Read the appendix carefully. The Shire calendar was arranged so that every date always had the same day of the week.
Ah, gotcha. Yes, I will want to have a conversion to that calendar, but I'm going to start with the modern (our) version.

Thanks!

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:05 am
by aramis
Elfcrusher wrote:
Stormcrow wrote:Any reason you can't use the calendar in LR?
I just want to be able to ask (for example), "What day of the week is March 17th, 2952?" and get the right answer. So, yes, I want to use the calendar in LotR, but for any date.

Or am I not understanding your question?
Properly, the 3rd month is Rethe on the Shire calendar.
17th Rethe (any year) is always a Sterday.

Remembering the week goes: Sterday, Sunday, Monday, Trewsday, Heavensday, Mersday, Highday
Months are all 30 days; the holidays (Yule and Lithe) are special

Yule: 1st is highday, only 2 days.
Afteryule (January): 1st is Sunday
Solmath (February): 1st is Trewsday
Rethe (March): 1st is Mersday
Astron (April): 1st is Sterday
Thrimidge (May): 1st is Monday
Forelith (June): 1st is Heavensday
Lithe: 1st is Highday; 2nd lithe is Sterday; Litheday (Midsummer's day) and Overlitheday (Leap Day) are outside the week system, and fall between Lithe 1st and Lithe 2nd.
Afterlithe (July): 1st is Sunday
Wedmath (August): 1st is trewsday
Halimath (September): 1st is Mersday
Winterfilth (October): 1st is Sterday
Blotmath (November): 1st is Monday
Foreyule (December): 1st is Heavensday

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:25 am
by Morgoth
I had this same question a few weeks ago. Thanks for clearing this up!

Re: Middle Earth Calendar

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:46 am
by aramis
One other thing: if using King's Reckoning, the weekdays will have the similar names, but won't match...
... as only the Hobbits and men of Bree adopted the lithe and overlithe exception.


King's Reckoning
Days of the week: Elenya (Star), Anarya (Sun), Isilya (Moon), Aldëa (Tree), Menelya (Heavens), Eärenya (Sea), Valanya (Powers)

Lettering the days ABCDEFG

Yëstare (Yule) day 1 A
Narvinyë (Jan) Day 2-31 B
Nénimë (Feb) Day 32-61 D
Súlimë (Mar) Day 62-91 F
Víressë (Apr) Day 92-121 A
Lótessë (May) Day 122-151 C
Nárië (Jun) Days 152-182 E
loëndë (midsummer) Day 183 A (183-184 F-G)
Cermië (Jul) days 184-214 B (185-215 C)
Úrimë (Aug) Days 215-244 E (216-245 F)
Yavannië (Sep) Days 245-274 G (246-275 A)
Narquelië (Oct) Days 275-304 B (276-305 C)
Hísimë (Nov) Days 305-334 D (306-335 E)
Ringarë (Dec) Days 335-364 F (336-365 G)
mettarë (—) Day 365 A (366 B)

The following isn't entirely accurate (as it ignores the skipped leap day every century)

Code: Select all

All years
WD Yestare Narvinyë_____   Nénimë_______   Súlimë_______
A   1      -  7 14 21 28   —  5 12 19 26   —  4 11 18 25 
B   -      1  8 15 22 29   -  6 13 20 27   —  5 12 19 26 
C   -      2  9 16 23 30   -  7 14 21 28   —  6 13 20 27 
D   -      3 10 17 24  -   1  8 15 22 29   -  7 14 21 28 
E   -      4 11 18 25  -   2  9 16 23 30   -  8 15 22 29 
F   -      5 12 19 26  -   3 10 17 24  –   1  9 16 23 30 
G   -      6 13 20 27  -   4 11 18 25  –   2 10 17 24  - 

WD Víresse_________   Lótessë______   Nárië________
A  —  2  9 16 23 30   -  7 14 21 28   —  5 12 19 26 
B  -  3 10 17 24  -   1  8 15 22 29   -  6 13 20 27 
C  -  4 11 18 25  -   2  9 16 23 30   -  7 14 21 28 
D  -  5 12 19 26  -   3 10 17 24  -   1  8 15 22 29 
E  —  6 13 20 27  -   4 11 18 25  -   2  9 16 23 30 
F  —  7 14 21 28  -   5 12 19 26  -   3 10 17 24 31 
G  1  8 15 22 29  -   6 13 20 27  -   4 11 18 25  – 


Non-leap years 
WD loëndë  Cermië_______   Úrimë________   Yavannië_____ 
A   -      1  8 15 22 29   —  5 12 19 26   —  4 11 18 25 
B   -      2  9 16 23 30   -  6 13 20 27   —  5 12 19 26 
C   -      3 10 17 24 31   -  7 14 21 28   —  6 13 20 27 
D   -      4 11 18 25  -   1  8 15 22 29   -  7 14 21 28 
E   -      5 12 19 26  -   2  9 16 23 30   -  8 15 22 29 
F   -      6 13 20 27  -   3 10 17 24  –   1  9 16 23 30 
G   1      7 14 21 28  -   4 11 18 25  –   2 10 17 24  - 

WD Narquelië_______   Hísimë_______   Ringarë______  Mettarë
A  —  2  9 16 23 30   -  7 14 21 28   —  5 12 19 26   -
B  -  3 10 17 24  -   1  8 15 22 29   -  6 13 20 27   -
C  -  4 11 18 25  -   2  9 16 23 30   -  7 14 21 28   -
D  -  5 12 19 26  -   3 10 17 24  -   1  8 15 22 29   -
E  —  6 13 20 27  -   4 11 18 25  -   2  9 16 23 30   -
F  —  7 14 21 28  -   5 12 19 26  -   3 10 17 24  -   1
G  1  8 15 22 29  -   6 13 20 27  -   4 11 18 25  –   -  


Leap Years (R+3, R+7, R+11, R+15, R+19, R+23, R+27)
WD loëndë  Cermië_______   Úrimë________   Yavannië_____
A   -  2   -  7 14 21 28   -  4 11 18 25   –  2 10 17 24
B   -  -   1  8 15 22 29   —  5 12 19 26   —  4 11 18 25
C   -  -   2  9 16 23 30   -  6 13 20 27   —  5 12 19 26
D   -  -   3 10 17 24 31   -  7 14 21 28   —  6 13 20 27
E   -  -   4 11 18 25  -   1  8 15 22 29   -  7 14 21 28
F   -  -   5 12 19 26  -   2  9 16 23 30   -  8 15 22 29
G   1  -   6 13 20 27  -   3 10 17 24  –   1  9 16 23 30

WD Narquelië____   Hísimë_______   Ringarë______  Mettarë
A  1  8 15 22 29   -  6 13 20 27   -  4 11 18 25   – 
B  2  9 16 23 30   -  7 14 21 28   —  5 12 19 26   -
C  3 10 17 24  -   1  8 15 22 29   -  6 13 20 27   -
D  4 11 18 25  -   2  9 16 23 30   -  7 14 21 28   -
E  5 12 19 26  -   3 10 17 24  -   1  8 15 22 29   -
F  6 13 20 27  -   4 11 18 25  -   2  9 16 23 30   -
G  7 14 21 28  -   5 12 19 26  -   3 10 17 24  -   1
Note that weeks run down like they do in App. D's Shire calendar, but the specific weekday is a separate lookup by what year of the 28 year cycle...

Code: Select all

WkDy _A_ _B_ _C_ _D_ _E_ _F_ _G_
R +0 Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val 
R +1 Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele 
R +2 Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana 
R +3 Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Leap Year
R +4 Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men 
R +5 Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär 
R +6 Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val 
R +7 Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele Leap Year
R +8 Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi 
R +9 Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald 
R+10 Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men 
R+11 Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Leap Year
R+12 Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele 
R+13 Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana 
R+14 Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi 
R+15 Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Leap Year 
R+16 Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär  
R+17 Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val  
R+18 Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele  
R+19 Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana Leap Year 
R+20 Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald  
R+21 Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men  
R+22 Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär  
R+23 Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Eär Val Leap Year
R+24 Isi Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana  
R+25 Ald Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi  
R+26 Men Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald  
R+27 Eär Val Ele Ana Isi Ald Men Leap Year
All times are UTC
Page 1 of 2
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/