Demographics

[fredub]

I'm using Tolwen's work a lot in my adventures. His essai on Rhovanion demographics in Other Minds 14 is the ultimate tool to create a rich and coherent setting for our adventures. Please go and read it!

Regards,

[Fridokind Wargaug]

It might be an interesting project, trying to calculate the populations of Gondor and Rohan based on the numbers of troops in their armies—keeping in mind who is said not to show up and who is already dead.

True, but I think that even a advanced civilisation like Gondor (compared in this one assay to the Byzantine Empire, so 1% of the population is in military business) will in regard to the apparent destruction and enslavement of mankind through Mordor mobilize most of their male population to defend their country. Somewhat like the defence of Helm's Deep in the movies, where even old men and boys were recruited.

For everybody interested, this is the essay: http://www.stephenwigmore.com/2012/08/p ... rd-of.html

[Fridokind Wargaug]

I just read: "There were many of them, and they were brave and well-armed" (description of woodmen from the Hobbit). So I guess my 15,000 is too little...

[Halbarad]

@ Fridokind. I reckon that 15,000 sounds just about right to me.

I would estimate a total of 4000 men capable of bearing arms in that number and as many as 2000 of those being warriors in their prime. (That's probably more men than Theodred had with him to fight at the Isen Fords) Based on the earlier assumptions about the populations of the chief settlements and a further assumption that they(the goblins and wargs) are only concerned with the population of Mountain Hall and it's satellite settlements, we are still talking about some 500 fighting men and that many again capable of swinging an axe in self defence(not to mention a few shield maidens)

500 men fits the bill pretty well for that little snippet from the Hobbit.

[Fridokind Wargaug]

I'm using Tolwen's work a lot in my adventures. His essai on Rhovanion demographics in Other Minds 14 is the ultimate tool to create a rich and coherent setting for our adventures. Please go and read it!

Regards,

By the way, I don´t think, the work is very accurate. Tolwen gets a population density for entire Wilderland (from Misty Mountains to Sea of Rhûn) of 4 (humans per km²), which is comparable to modern day Mongolia. However, if you subtract the wilderness out of wilderland (which is pretty high, hence the name) the density becomes a lot higher, to an extent, where it is in my eyes unrealistically high. Gandalf describes the land of the Beornings as almost empty ("not many settlements" are his words, as I believe), Mirwood is almost completely empty (with the exemption of the Woodmen). The population of the Dalelands in TA 2946 is derived completely from somewhere else, so people moving there, create negative growth somewhere else (probably the Marches), so they would be populated even less dense. And last, I don´t believe, there were a lot of people living between Mirkwood and Rhûn (pretty much none). The wainraiders and co. always came from south of the Sea of Rhûn, not from the west of it, so that land is too a large extent empty, too (with the exeption of Sunstead and sorrounding villages).

[Halbarad]

Do you mean inaccurate as in the numbers of persons quoted, or as in the existence of certain groupings of people in certain locations?
I only ask because Tolwen is generally regarded as having an extremely in depth knowledge of the canon and because this article was many months in the creating. I had some little input into it myself and I can assure you that although I had occasional misgivings about the numbers being mooted, the existence and placement of the various cultural groupings were completely plausible given such evidence as existed within the canon.
In short, it may not be everyone's vision of Rhovanion but the article had to attempt to appeal and be believable to purist scholars and gamers both. I think that it was a sterling effort on his part, given the little evidence that he had to extrapolate from.