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Yep, and it was that which finally allowed him to fail the Protection test. I rolled a Gandalf, 6, 3, 4 and +8 for Attribute Level, dropping the 3 gave him a total of 18 and he failed the Protection test. 3D Favoured armour and high Attribute levels are tough to beat so Great Orcs and Cave Trolls join Snow Trolls as something to avoid.

Murcushio wrote:My group will be running with the new rules for the first time on Friday, and... I dunno. Is it wrong that we're crazy, stupid wary about the new Attribute bonus rules for NPCs? Anything with a Favored Weapon skill or armor skill just got massively more deadly without a corresponding increase in PC survivability.

Hate to break it to you, but that's always been the case - the only thing that's changed is now the Attribute bonus is added twice to damage on an extraordinary success.

(I can see where the confusion lies though, as we've mistakenly highlighted the word favoured in the clarifications doc in red as though it were new - if you look at the previous edition, the exact same rule existed).

Hermes Serpent wrote: so Great Orcs and Cave Trolls join Snow Trolls as something to avoid.

Actually, that's probably good advice regardless of the theorycraft.

By the way, I think I should get an AP for invoking my Trait of "Tall" to describe how I rolled an Eye on my Stealth check.

Alas, poor Grimfast, taking a dirt nap,
After going four rounds with a Troll.
The bruise from his slam against the door jam
Was certainly taking it's toll.

Michebugio wrote:Just a question: did you remember to apply the WEARY condition to the Troll's Protection Tests when he was reduced to 0 End?

Yes, that's the only reason he failed the final test. (He was at negative seventy-something Endurance. Stupid Troll. Too dumb to know that he's unconscious.)

Murcushio wrote:My group will be running with the new rules for the first time on Friday, and... I dunno. Is it wrong that we're crazy, stupid wary about the new Attribute bonus rules for NPCs? Anything with a Favored Weapon skill or armor skill just got massively more deadly without a corresponding increase in PC survivability.

I've always played that creatures get the extra damage on a tengwar and use their AL when attacking. I read p64 of the original LMB "It is added as a bonus every time that a creature attempts a roll using a characteristic indicated as favoured (without the need of spending any point to invoke the bonus) and as a Damage bonus to be applied when the creature hits an opponent in combat rolling a great or extraordinary success." as being the same for adversaries as for allies and just noting that, unlike Special Abilities, they didn't need to spend a point of Hate to get the bonus.

Enemies with Favoured armour or weapon skills have not changed except to maybe add an extra bonus to a hit with tengwars depending on how the LM read the section on page 64.

The PC have not got any less adept or monsters tougher it's just you haven't applied the rules as written and now with the extra damage you're concerned. Tell your players that bad guys are now much harder to defeat and go on from there.

Elfcrusher wrote:

Hermes Serpent wrote: so Great Orcs and Cave Trolls join Snow Trolls as something to avoid.

Actually, that's probably good advice regardless of the theorycraft.

By the way, I think I should get an AP for invoking my Trait of "Tall" to describe how I rolled an Eye on my Stealth check.

Alas, poor Grimfast, taking a dirt nap,
After going four rounds with a Troll.
The bruise from his slam against the door jam
Was certainly taking it's toll.

I think that you should indeed get the AP for working Tall into the description of clouting your head on the lintel of the door and rousing the troll from his corner.

Hermes Serpent wrote: I think that you should indeed get the AP for working Tall into the description of clouting your head on the lintel of the door and rousing the troll from his corner.

Oh, right...the "jam" is the piece of the wood at the bottom of the door. Well, he hit that too, I think.

Andrew wrote:

Murcushio wrote:My group will be running with the new rules for the first time on Friday, and... I dunno. Is it wrong that we're crazy, stupid wary about the new Attribute bonus rules for NPCs? Anything with a Favored Weapon skill or armor skill just got massively more deadly without a corresponding increase in PC survivability.

Hate to break it to you, but that's always been the case - the only thing that's changed is now the Attribute bonus is added twice to damage on an extraordinary success.

(I can see where the confusion lies though, as we've mistakenly highlighted the word favoured in the clarifications doc in red as though it were new - if you look at the previous edition, the exact same rule existed).

Oh! So, basically, our GM was unintentionally cutting us all kinds of slack.

Well! Objection withdrawn, then. I feel like an idiot.

I suppose that it all balances out, because for the first five sessions of the campaign he was also operating under the assumptions that NPCs got two wounds, just like PCs did. None of us questioned it until one of us looked at the wording for Great Size, pondered that a bit, and then read through the Loremasters Guide VERY carefully until he found what he was looking for.

Actually it's 'jamb' and although you're the carpenter it is, I believe, normally the piece of wood that stops a door swinging all the way past the upright frame of the door.

Yeah I made the same mistake when I first started Loremaster TOR, Murcushio.

Suddenly those Snaga Trackers aren't the push-overs you first thought, and are deserving of a bit more respect