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zedturtle wrote:Perhaps Bree will be like Esgaroth... i.e it comes with a stand-up shield with relevant charts and tables on it, corresponding to the new rulebook?

You know, you could've hit the nail on the head with that. Perhaps to keep costs low, it wouldn't be a screen but would instead contain loose glossy sheets that could be stuck to peoples' already existing screens. After all the current GM screen comes with the Laketown guide so even for players coming to the game new it is still a useful product.

Falenthal wrote:My basic idea about Dunedain and Noldor is that they shouldn't have any "low-range" attributes.
We know that, in Rhovanion, the cultures had the 5-7/4-6/2-4 (or the like) division of attributes. I think those two special cultures should have no 2-4 range attributes. Maybe one 5-7 and two 4-6.

Speaking as someone who feels character balance in an RPG is a rather ridiculous thing to have in a game, I'm definitely for a change in power levels of the PCs in TOR. But, I have to ask why would the Nolder be any more "powerful" game level wise then the Elves of Mirkwood?

So... when's the pre-order going live again? :-)

Beran wrote: Speaking as someone who feels character balance in an RPG is a rather ridiculous thing to have in a game, I'm definitely for a change in power levels of the PCs in TOR. But, I have to ask why would the Nolder be any more "powerful" game level wise then the Elves of Mirkwood?

The Elves of Mirkwood are Nandor; Dark Elves, moriquendi. They never dwelt in the Blessed Realm, being mentored and taught by the Valar themselves, looking upon the light of the two trees undimmed.

The Noldor are High Elves; calaquendi, Elves of the Light. They are actually spiritually and physically a very different people from their brethren in Middle-Earth.

"... here in Rivendell there live still some of his (Sauron's) chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power."

"I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?"

"Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. He is an Elf-lord of a house of princes. Indeed there is a power in Rivendell to withstand the might of Mordor..."

The Noldor are emphatically not the same sort of people as their kin in the Woodland Realm. The Noldor slay Balrogs in single combat. The Noldor challenge Morgoth at the gates of Angband and wound him sorely. The Noldor defy the Gods themselves and nearly make it stick. They are Glorfindel, and Galadriel, and Gil-Galad, and Fingolfin and Finrod and Feanor and all his sons. Celebrimbor, who made the three.

That's why.

Murcushio wrote:
The Noldor are emphatically not the same sort of people as their kin in the Woodland Realm. The Noldor slay Balrogs in single combat. The Noldor challenge Morgoth at the gates of Angband and wound him sorely. The Noldor defy the Gods themselves and nearly make it stick. They are Glorfindel, and Galadriel, and Gil-Galad, and Fingolfin and Finrod and Feanor and all his sons. Celebrimbor, who made the three.

That's why.

No way. I saw the movies. Legolas would kick all their asses.

Elfcrusher wrote:

Murcushio wrote:
The Noldor are emphatically not the same sort of people as their kin in the Woodland Realm. The Noldor slay Balrogs in single combat. The Noldor challenge Morgoth at the gates of Angband and wound him sorely. The Noldor defy the Gods themselves and nearly make it stick. They are Glorfindel, and Galadriel, and Gil-Galad, and Fingolfin and Finrod and Feanor and all his sons. Celebrimbor, who made the three.

That's why.

No way. I saw the movies. Legolas would kick all their asses.

Mandos is going to let Fëanor out of his halls... just to kick both your and Legolas's ass.

Rocmistro wrote: I'm just afraid of the propensity for the small, provincial, intimate hero designs of TOR: AOtEotW to be cast aside by everyone in favor of WAP-NADs (Wise and Powerful Noldor and Dunedain). I don't want to see that smallness go away.

If it does, I'm going to blame everyone who did not support my sucky, draconian, medieval "unlock" approach to solving the problem.

I absolutely share this sentiment, and I've barely begun my time with this game. But I suppose the caveat is your playgroup and what they do and how they do it. Dunno. I suppose I'll let this simmer before trying to add my two cents

Wooo! I'm really looking forward to this. The Rangers of the North I've especially felt have been missing from One Ring. I can get why they might not have a major presence East of the mountains (especially with the Beornings serving of wardens of that area), but I always felt that they should have *some* presence there (at least enough to justify a PC or two ).

But I'm trying to curb my enthusiasm. Afterall, the last two books I pre-ordered for One Ring I still don't have physical copies of. (PDFs just don't cut it for me. They're nice for referencing, but I can't just sit down and read them like I can with physical books.)
But that's okay. I ran some One Ring earlier this year. I can take a break and run something else until I get Darkening, the revised rules, and Rivendell all in my grubby little hands.

As for Bree, the more we go West of the Misty Mountains, the more conspicuous its absence will feel.

I wouldn't mind seeing Bree get a booklet like Lake Town did, I feel it would be fairly appropriate on that level.
But I'd also like to see the Shire and the Old Forest get some coverage (as well as the Grey Havens, the Chetwood, the other towns in the area, etc) and all that plus Bree would seem appropriate for a Heart of the Wild type book.

Beran wrote:
Speaking as someone who feels character balance in an RPG is a rather ridiculous thing to have in a game, I'm definitely for a change in power levels of the PCs in TOR. But, I have to ask why would the Nolder be any more "powerful" game level wise then the Elves of Mirkwood?

I agree. "Balance" is not a primary concern for me. As I ran through Tales from Wilderland, it was increasingly clear how "weak" the hobbit character was when compared to the Beorning. And that was fine! The game is clever enough that the "weaker" characters aren't just useless (the hobbit just being there gave them extra Fellowship and he could use various combat tasks to benefit his friends while they did the actual slaying)
and then at the climax of the game it was the little hobbit that saved their proverbial bacon when he parlayed with Raenar.
Role play and teamwork both matter more to me than whether or not the Elf can fell one more orc than the Beorning can each round.

Murcushio wrote:The Noldor are emphatically not the same sort of people as their kin in the Woodland Realm. The Noldor slay Balrogs in single combat. The Noldor challenge Morgoth at the gates of Angband and wound him sorely. The Noldor defy the Gods themselves and nearly make it stick. They are Glorfindel, and Galadriel, and Gil-Galad, and Fingolfin and Finrod and Feanor and all his sons. Celebrimbor, who made the three.

That's why.

The Noldor of the first age did those things. Those Elves are Legend, and a few among many ( I am assuming). Not all Elves are going to be thousands of years old. I'm all for Elven characters having more points to spend during PC gen (as due their great age)...I've said so many times around here, but if you are suggesting that PCs be as powerful and knowledgeable as Elrond then I disagree.

Beran wrote:

Murcushio wrote:The Noldor are emphatically not the same sort of people as their kin in the Woodland Realm. The Noldor slay Balrogs in single combat. The Noldor challenge Morgoth at the gates of Angband and wound him sorely. The Noldor defy the Gods themselves and nearly make it stick. They are Glorfindel, and Galadriel, and Gil-Galad, and Fingolfin and Finrod and Feanor and all his sons. Celebrimbor, who made the three.

That's why.

The Noldor of the first age did those things. Those Elves are Legend, and a few among many ( I am assuming). Not all Elves are going to be thousands of years old. I'm all for Elven characters having more points to spend during PC gen (as due their great age)...I've said so many times around here, but if you are suggesting that PCs be as powerful and knowledgeable as Elrond then I disagree.

Er... wha?

I mean, everything you said there is true, and I in no way dispute that PCs aren't going to be Elrond if they play a Noldo or Aragorn if they play a Dunadan.

But that wasn't what you asked. What you asked was 'Why should the Noldor be different from the Elves of Mirkwood?' And that was what I answered. The Noldor are the High Elves from the First Age. That's the whole point of them in the books, that they're the last High Elves still dwelling east of the sea. Rivendell, very specifically and specially, is called out by Tolkien as their last settlement and stronghold. (Lorien doesn't actually count; Lorien is filled with silvan elves ruled by a Noldo, which is a different thing altogether.) Elrond only isn't the High King of the Noldor because he refused the crown after Gil-Galad died.

Even if you're playing a lesser Noldo, possibly one not born in Aman, like Elladan and Elrohir, you're still gonna have all the benefits that accrue from being heirs to their civilization, which was literally the pinnacle of beauty, culture, learning, and craft that all of Middle-Earth ever achieved.

This is going to put you a cut above a bunch of people who thought that the whole "lets go to Valinor" thing was a bad idea and decided to go live in the woods instead.