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Aha! That would seem to settle it.

Thank you, Beckett. This make me happy.

Stormcrow wrote:If I were adventuring in Lake-town during the autumn and had a house to stay in, I would be pretty annoyed if the Loremaster insisted I was carrying three encumbrance points of blankets, water, and food.

If I were on an autumn journey riding a pony and were ambushed by a band of orcs, I would be pretty annoyed if the Loremaster insisted that I, and not my pony, were carrying three encumbrance points of blankets, water, and food during the fight.

In addition if I was in a dust up with Orcs etc, then part of readying a weapon would be to drop the pack I'm carrying, whether I can afford a pack pony or not. If you are surprised you lose your first attack to get to the stage of making some sort of defence - surely? So no travelling encumbrance during a fight/combat for me!

Dunheved wrote:...if I was in a dust up with Orcs etc, then part of readying a weapon would be to drop the pack I'm carrying, whether I can afford a pack pony or not....So no travelling encumbrance during a fight/combat for me!

But encumbrance reductions don't lower your Fatigue score until after a prolonged rest:

...if during play a player removes something from a hero’s carried equipment, his Fatigue score is adjusted only after a prolonged rest (as the character is considered to have already suffered from the burden of the carried equipment).

-- Revised edition p. 119 (top of second column); original edition p. AG 108 (second paragraph).

trystero wrote:

Dunheved wrote:...if I was in a dust up with Orcs etc, then part of readying a weapon would be to drop the pack I'm carrying, whether I can afford a pack pony or not....So no travelling encumbrance during a fight/combat for me!

But encumbrance reductions don't lower your Fatigue score until after a prolonged rest:

...if during play a player removes something from a hero’s carried equipment, his Fatigue score is adjusted only after a prolonged rest (as the character is considered to have already suffered from the burden of the carried equipment).

-- Revised edition p. 119 (top of second column); original edition p. AG 108 (second paragraph).

Not the OP, but I think you may be misunderstanding... Your travelling gear causes additional fatigue only when the going gets tough (failed Travel roll). If I had a bad spot the last few days and am extra tired because I've been having to lug my gear while coaxing the pony through mud and brambles then it doesn't matter that I drop my pack when I see the orcs. The pack has already "done its damage" to me.

But...

If I had a easy time of it; sunshine and flowers the whole way, it doesn't matter that I drop my pack when I see the orcs. But I shouldn't have to pay for any Fatigue due to the pack, it hasn't been wearing me down (like it was in the first example).

At least, that's how I interpret the rules.

Dunheved wrote:

Stormcrow wrote:If I were adventuring in Lake-town during the autumn and had a house to stay in, I would be pretty annoyed if the Loremaster insisted I was carrying three encumbrance points of blankets, water, and food.

If I were on an autumn journey riding a pony and were ambushed by a band of orcs, I would be pretty annoyed if the Loremaster insisted that I, and not my pony, were carrying three encumbrance points of blankets, water, and food during the fight.

In addition if I was in a dust up with Orcs etc, then part of readying a weapon would be to drop the pack I'm carrying, whether I can afford a pack pony or not. If you are surprised you lose your first attack to get to the stage of making some sort of defence - surely? So no travelling encumbrance during a fight/combat for me!

It's probably not a pack. It's a cloak, and a tankard, and probably a knife. Maybe a bowl, spoon and fork. And definitely a waterskin. Maybe a bedroll, and maybe a sling bag.

The bedroll is likely worn alongside the quiver; it's held on with a cord with slipknot ends, and a bight tied off for fit.

The cloak might be worn open or closed, and can be dropped - but tossing it over one's shield arm was actually not uncommon in pre-renaissance combats. And is a good way to go - I know doing so in some SCA practices showed some of the guys that it's exceptionally hard to move out the way. (Reference is made to the celts doing so for centuries - back when the Kilt was a cloak some 3 yards long, not a lower body garment of 3-7 yards.) Further, many historical winter cloaks were actually strapped on with a cross-chest rigging, or with a pair of shoulder straps; those kind, you're not dropping quickly (and aren't wearing over a backpack, either). Likewise, the cloak is worn over almost anything else; it's hard to get a pack over a worn cloak, tho if belted over, it can be used to make a baby-sling (Personal experience) or carry a kilo or two of stuff while keeping the back hem up and out of the brush.

The waterskin/wineskin is typically on its own cord, but may have a shoulder pad on said cord. Not quick to doff, if you plan on wearing it again.

The tankard gets hooked to the belt on a thong. The bowl may be in a belt pouch -think more of a purse-like thing - more like the Scots sporran than a backpack, possibly worn on a second strip low in front, possibly on a shoulder strap, worn close, possibly on the main belt on the side or in back.

A coinpurse (think dice-bag for comparison) is de rigeur, and oft tied to the belt. (And running with a full one that's not placed well can get painful. Personal experience. Family Jewels aren't meant to meet the king's silver.)

A sling bag, basically a modern small gym bag in size and shape, would be used for carrying some additional items, especially tools, one's helm, stone, and (if so inclined) prayerbook. Maybe also armor gauntlets in winter, and light shoes for when one goes inside. Maybe also a pillow. And probably some food. Keep in mind, it's worn under the cloak.

Murcushio wrote:I play Alette, a Beorning. She carries a Great Spear (Encumbrance 4) and wears a Leather corslet (Encumbrance 8). We began the game in spring, meaning that her Traveling Gear has Encumbrance 2.

Is her Encumbrance 14, or is it 12? Is her starting Fatigue score 14, or is it 12?

The encumbrance is 12. You only add the encumbrance of your travelling gear to your fatigue on a failed travelling roll during a journey.

Murcushio wrote:Alette fights in Forward and Open a lot, so she gets hit a lot. The Troll hits with its club a few times and I go to Endurance 13.

Am I Weary?

If you did not gain any fatigue while travelling, then no, you are not Weary yet.

Mind those trolls!

Oops. I've been doing it wrong, but I confess I didn't entirely understand. Thanks for bringing this up and clarifying it. For those who haven't got the new edition pdf, the clarifications document cleared it all up nicely. Cheers!

aramis wrote:
It's probably not a pack. It's a cloak, and a tankard, and probably a knife. Maybe a bowl, spoon and fork. And definitely a waterskin. Maybe a bedroll, and maybe a sling bag.

The bedroll is likely worn alongside the quiver; it's held on with a cord with slipknot ends, and a bight tied off for fit.

Why not put all of it in a pack? Because historically backpacks are a recent invention? Pfffffft.

The Hobbit:

“Don’t you worry!” said Thorin. “It will get lighter all too soon. Before long I expect we shall all wish our packs heavier, when the food begins to run short.”

“They each shouldered the heavy pack and the water-skin which was their share, and turned from the light that lay on the lands outside and plunged into the forest.”

“But they did not know this, and they were burdened with the heavy body of Bombur, which they had to carry along with them as best they could, taking the wearisome task in turns of four each while the others shared their packs.”

“Dain’s folk, in spite of their rapid march, bore huge packs on their backs in addition to their weapons.”

The Lord of the Rings:

“Pippin and Sam strapped up their three packs and piled them in the porch. ”

“Well, now we’re off at last!’ said Frodo. They shouldered their packs and took up their sticks, and walked round the corner to the west side of Bag End.”

“At the bottom of the Hill on its western side they came to the gate opening on to a narrow lane. There they halted and adjusted the straps of their packs.”

I could keep going...

EDIT: By the way, I'm not suggesting that you can drop your pack and get rid of the fatigue. Just saying that it can certainly be a pack if the player so chooses.

Hobbits are anachronistically advanced by comparison. Hobbits appear to be 19th C tech in a 10th C world.

aramis wrote:Hobbits are anachronistically advanced by comparison. Hobbits appear to be 19th C tech in a 10th C world.

Well... sort of. They didn't have firearms, or steam engines. And they were clearly outsourcing a lot of their heavy industry to the dwarves. The Shire had advanced glassworking and metalworking; you don't get either of those without some serious industrial processes upstream of you. Hobbit blacksmiths were getting their bar and rod stock from somewhere, after all. For that matter, building their large hobbit-holes (Bag End, the Great Smials, Brandy Hall) would have required a serious understanding of math. Ever built underground in a serious way? It's tricky.

What the Shire is mostly is Tolkien's idealization of a kind of English country-and-village life that one hopes he realizes never actually existed, nor was ever possible, in the real world. You have an educated gentry class keen on reading and writing and corresponding with each other furiously, supported by a rustic and uneducated but good-hearted yeomanry who industriously grow food and practice crafts and love a good pint down at the pub. It has all the amenities needed to make such a life comfortable (a postal service, a functioning legal system, enough technology and industry for people to build opulent country houses where they can put their feet up, wineries, tobacconists, etc etc) but not enough to make such a life actually complicated in any way.