Dunedain and High Elves

[Rocmistro]

So I'm putting this post up, mostly as a bit of vanity. I'd like to see how close I come to C7's version of Dunedain and Noldor when they release the Rivendell sourcebook in a few weeks.

I designed these two playable cultures, about 3-5 months ago, mostly as a theory-crafting exercise for myself, never thinking they'd actually see gameplay (and they probably won't!). But I wanted to see if I could make them work within the rules and still be balanced. Here's what I came up with (minus things like the narrative fluff for starting backgrounds and custom virtues/rewards).

Please note that I'm not interested in responses to the mechanical balance or quality, as they never got that far into their design. I'm not "submitting these for peer review" from the standpoint of mechanical quality. I'm more interested in feedback on the ideas, and seeing how close I got to C7's design.

So, here you go, enjoy.

Dunedain (Men of the West). *Note that credit goes to Rich Harrison and Diogo Nogueira for some of the ideas in this. Those of you who have the Rangers of the North fan material by Rich will see some lifting.

Basics.
Standard of Living: Frugal
Languages: Westron, Adunaic
Suggested Callings: Warden or Scholar
Unusual Callings: Treasure-Hunter
Endurance: 24 + Heart
Hope: 3 + Heart

Cultural Blessing: The Blood of Numenor.
-Dunedian start of with 16 "stat points" (instead of 14), but they are still bound by their Backgrounds (see below)
-They receive favored attributes = to +2/+1/0 instead of +3/+2/+1
-Begin with Standing of "1" that does not require treasure upkeep or go away at year's end.
-Add their standing score as a static bonus to all rolls made to resist and heal corruption.

Starting Common Skills:
Awe: 1, Inspire: 1, Persuade: 0
Ath: 1, Travel: 2, Stealth: 2
Aware: 2,Insight: 1, Search: 1
Explore: 1, Healing: 1, Hunting: 1
Song: 1, Courtesy: 2, Riddle: 0
Craft; 1, Battle: 2, Lore: 2

Weapon Skill Packages:
Great Bow: 2, Sword: 1, Spear: 1 Dagger: 1
OR
Longsword: 2, Bow: 1, Spear: 1, Dagger: 1

Specialties:
Pick 2: Old Lore, Shadow Lore, Fire Making, Herb Lore, Leechcraft, Eriador Lore, Beast Lore.

Backgrounds:
1. Keeper of Traditions: 4/5/7 Lore + Craft
2. Swift Courier: 6/6/4 Travel + Athletics
3. Paths Seldom Trodden: 5/5/6 Explore + Hunting
4. Captain of Men: 5/6/5 Inspire + Awe
5. Hunter of All Things Fell: 6/5/5 [choose 1 weapon skill} + Battle
6. The Silent Watch: 5/4/7 Stealth + Awareness

Virtues:
1. Friend to Imladris. Start with Rivendell as sanctuary. Elf friend trait, +1 tolerance with elves.
2. Hands of a Healer. Soothe pain, poison remedies, herbal care.
3. Shepherd Among Wolves. You can declare a 2nd Fellowship Focus.
4. Commander without Peer. When you give bonus combat dice to fellowship, they roll 2x and take better value.
5. Experienced Ranger. Per Diogo and Rich H's fan material.

Rewards:
1. Armaments of Numenor. (Longsword or Great Bow) Spend 1 point of hope after a piercing blow to increase TN by +2.
2. Armor of the Rangers. Roll feat die twice when using stealth or explore and take better result.
3. Gift of Westernese. add +1 to # of points generated on a successful intimidate foes or rally comrades.

[Glorelendil]

Good effort! I like how you adjusted stats (higher stats, lower favoured) and how that interacts with low Hope. Inherently "stronger", but less able to pull off a hail mary pass.

I'd tweak starting skills a little. I would think Travel 3 and Explore 2. Maybe lower stealth and courtesy. (I don't think of Dunedain as being inherently very diplomatic, even if their forefathers were.)

Not sure what I think about giving an extra weapon skill, but no favoured weapon or weapon group. Or did you intend for Great Bow and Long Sword to be favoured?

Really like Gift of Westernesse and Commander without Peer. ("OMG ITZ A WARLORD!!!")

A long sword with Armaments of Numenor and Fell would take care of those pesky snow trolls. Although...in general I'm not crazy about uses of Hope that aren't used post-roll and thus don't guarantee outcomes.

Fun. Thanks for sharing.

[Rocmistro]

The Lingering Eldar.

Basics.
Standard of Living: Prosperous
Languages: Westron, Adunaic, Sindarin, Quenya
Suggested Callings: Warden, Wanderer, Scholar
Unusual Callings: Treasure-Hunter
Endurance: 24 + Heart
Hope: 2 + Heart

Cultural Blessing: They have 2.

The Memory of Trees. All Eldar begin play with 1 Shadow Point, representing their sensitivity to the sufferings of Middle-earth, and the sorrow they feel with the passing of time. In addition, Eldar only require 4 Permanent Shadow (as opposed to the normal 5) before they succumb to despair and leave Middle-earth forever. Eldar do not take the Shadow-weakness associated with their calling, instead they defer to the Shadow-weakness called “The Sea Calls Us Home” and they earn flaws according to its schedule (see below). At each “Year’s End”, Eldar receive an additional Shadow Point. Thus, they can almost never truly be played without at least 1 shadow point.

Music of the Ainur. Eldar are more closely tied to Eru’s Thought and the Flame Imperishable. They have been afforded great power, but it is far more pre-defined with less emphasis on individual determinism, and they do not have any latent talents or unrealized skills waiting to be honed. To reflect this, Eldar start play with higher array of stat points (17 instead of 14), but no favored attribute points to disburse or favored skills. They also receive better starting Common Skills and Weapon Skills. However, they also begin play with only 8 Previous Experience points, and they earn 1 fewer Experience Point at the conclusion of every adventure. Finally, all Eldar begin play with a standing score of 1, that does not decrease at year’s end or require treasure to upkeep.

Starting Common Skills:
Awe: 2, Inspire: 0, Persuade: 0
Ath: 2, Travel: 2, Stealth: 2
Aware: 2,Insight: 2, Search: 1
Explore: 0, Healing: 1, Hunting: 0
Song: 2, Courtesy: 1, Riddle: 0
Craft; 2, Battle: 1, Lore: 2

Weapon Skill Packages:
Bow: 2, Dagger: 1
AND
(Swords): 2 OR (Spears): 2

Specialties:
May pick any 2 specialties except Burglary and Smoke.

Backgrounds:
1. Sentinel of Lorien: 6/5/6 +1 Rank in Stealth.
2. Keeper of the Scrolls of Imladris: 5/4/8 +1 Rank in Lore.
3. Shipwrith of Mithlond: 5/5/7 +1 Rank in Craft.
4. Minstrel of the Courts: 7/4/6 +1 Rank in Song.
5. Lamp Bearer for the Departing: 6/4/7 +1 Rank in Travel.
6. Emissary of the Kingdoms: 7/5/5 +1 Rank in Athletics.

Flaws for "The Sea Calls Us Home" Eldar use these flawed traits instead of their callings when they suffer a bout of madness while miserable.
1. Aloof. The hero keeps others, especially mortals, at a distance. He cannot cope with their short lives and the sorrow that will besiege him at their inevitable passing. All social interactions with mortals (except Hobbits and Dunedain), take a penalty on the die roll equal to your current shadow score.
2. Distant. The hero is frequently not present in the moment, remembering earlier or happier times long since past. You take a penalty on all rolls equal to your current shadow rating for any skill that requires extended concentration or focus. (This would include most rolls of Riddle, Craft, Song, Lore, Persaude, Search, Explore, and any skill roll that is presented as an extended action.)
3. Weary with Sorrow. Unable to cope with the growing change and threats to his beloved Middle-earth, the hero is almost constantly depressed and melancholy. The Hero’s shadow rating is applied as a negative modifier to all Common skill rolls and skill tests.
4. 4. Upon receiving your 4th Permanent Shadow Point, you make the long journey to the Grey Havens, to take the White Ship into the West. Your character is effectively resigned from being a Player Character.

Additional Character Building Options.

In addition to all of the above, there are 2 additional character options that an Eldar can elect upon character creation. These can only be chosen at character creation, not after. An Eldar that chooses to be Calaquendi must also choose Ancient (but not vice versa), and an Eldar hero does not have to choose either.

1. Ancient. You are old, almost beyond the count of years that mortals can even imagine. Your exact age is up to you, but you should certainly have been around since at least the First Age. If you select this option, you get the following:

Old Beyond Reckoning
- +8 additional Previous Experience to spend.
- Begin play with Valor and Wisdom of 2, selecting a reward and virtue. (You do not then also further increase one of these by +1)
- You begin play with a Standing of 2, that does not decrease at Year’s End for not spending time at home or for not participating in financial upkeep.

The Suffering of Arda.
- You take -2 penalty on all attempts to Heal corruption.
- You earn an additional -1 XP at the end of each Adventure.

2. Calaquendi. If you choose this option, you are one of those few elves who has actually been to Valinor and bore witness to the light of the Trees. (This pretty much requires you to be a Noldor elf). In order to select this option, you *must* also have the “Ancient” option, above. If you choose this option, you receive the following:

Witness to the Light of Aman.
- +1 to your Heart Attribute Score
- +2 ranks in “Awe”; you are almost always surrounded by a nimbus of light.
- The Fair and Tall traits.
- You begin play with a Standing of 3, that does not decrease at Year’s End for not spending time at home or for not participating in financial upkeep.
- You receive a bonus equal to your standing score on all rolls to Resist corruption.
Oath of Feanor.
- You take an additional -2 penalty on all attempts to Heal corruption.
- You begin play with 1 Permanent Shadow Point and the associated flaw.

Virtues:
1. Immortal Constitution. +3 endurance, no scarring, immune to poison and disease. Gain fair trait.
2. Succor of the Last Homely House. Make a healing roll to mend a wound, add endurance equal to success dice.
3. Invocation of the Holy. Call upon Ainur / Elven Lords to make special intimdiate foe check against shadow.
4. Elvish Dreams. Per the book.
5. Speakers. Per the book.

Rewards:
1. Blessed Weapon. (any weapon). Extra damage against powerful agents of the shadow.
2. Gift of the Elves. Represents any type of item. Adds static +2 to bonus to 1 common skill. Do not suffer weary penalty for that one common skill.
3. Mithril Armor. (mail or helm) On great/extraordinary protection roll, wearer reduced damage by amount equal to their heart or favored heart score.. Hero does not suffer weary penalty to protection tests from being weary.

[Rocmistro]

Good effort! I like how you adjusted stats (higher stats, lower favoured) and how that interacts with low Hope. Inherently "stronger", but less able to pull off a hail mary pass.

I'd tweak starting skills a little. I would think Travel 3 and Explore 2. Maybe lower stealth and courtesy. (I don't think of Dunedain as being inherently very diplomatic, even if their forefathers were.)

Not sure what I think about giving an extra weapon skill, but no favoured weapon or weapon group. Or did you intend for Great Bow and Long Sword to be favoured?

Really like Gift of Westernesse and Commander without Peer. ("OMG ITZ A WARLORD!!!")

A long sword with Armaments of Numenor and Fell would take care of those pesky snow trolls. Although...in general I'm not crazy about uses of Hope that aren't used post-roll and thus don't guarantee outcomes.

Fun. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Elf! Yes, I'm sure the starting skills could be tweaked a bit. Remember I was trying to make a "Dunedain" culture (with Ranger being one option), not necessarily a "Ranger" culture, so pegging down the skills was a little tricker and needed to be more open ended.

No, the culture is not intended to start with a favored weapon or (cultural group). A starting player can get a favored weapon, but only by taking the appropriate background (Hunter of All Things Fell)

[Glorelendil]

Ah, yes, I get it. I was thinking of them all as being rangers.

Really love the Eldar. Without quibbling over specific numbers or details, I think you nailed the essence of it.

[Glorelendil]

Another great (and relevant) quote from Tolkien's letter in the Silmarillion:

“In the first we see a sort of second fall or at least ‘error’ of the Elves. There was nothing wrong essentially in their lingering against counsel, still sadly with* the mortal lands of their old heroic deeds. But they wanted to have their cake without eating it. They wanted the peace and bliss and perfect memory of ‘The West’, and yet to remain on the ordinary earth where their prestige as the highest people, above wild Elves, dwarves, and Men, was greater than at the bottom of the hierarchy of Valinor. They thus became obsessed with ‘fading’, the mode in which the changes of time (the law of the world under the sun) was perceived by them. They became sad, and their art (shall we say) antiquarian, and their efforts all really a kind of embalming – even though they also retained the old motive of their kind, the adornment of earth, and the healing of its hurts.”

[Rocmistro]

Elf, that's fantastic, and I had never read that before.

It's truly a remarkable observation about humanity. I find myself having this same conversation with my father all the time, and one of the criticisms I levy against him and "his" generation is the ease with which he clings to the past, his fondness and bias for older things; that new art, music, culture, progress, thoughts have such little value.

It goes right down to the line in RotK from Gandalf about making houses for the dead more splendid than the living, and counting the names of their ancestors more dear than the names of their children. That tendency to cling to the "perfection" of memories. Of course, he sees my criticisms as the proud rebellion of young upstarts (despite the fact that I'm 40!)

[zedturtle]

I remember you mentioning this a while back, and I'm glad to see your version... I think that you've done a good job of balancing everything. I think the C7 versions will go a little further, if only because of the Eye of Mordor (and other hinted at restrictions).

[Murcushio]

Couple minor observations.

Elves are already immune to disease. Offering it as part of a virtue package seems dubious at best.

The secondary language of the Dunedain should really be Sindarin rather than Adunaic. Adunaic is both simply an antiquated form of Westron not in use as anything but a lore-language, and, more importantly, the use of it and the turning away from the elven-tongues was associated with the King's Men of Numenor. The Dunedain of the Realms-in-Exile very specifically turn away from studying their lost homeland in-depth, which is regarded as unhealthy and unwise; the only stories commonly known from Numenor are the Akallabeth (which I believe was actually written by Elendil) and the Tale of Aldarion and Erendis.

We see a little of this in the books; when Frodo and Sam are held captive by Faramir's Rangers, the rangers first speak to each other in the common tongue, but then switch, not to Adunaic, but to Sindarin.

[Southron]

I really like the backgrounds and virtues that you have come up with. I am also curious as to how close you will come to the official rulings.