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Since in TOR there is no true d12, 8+ is 8,9,10,G, four of twelve results.

Now that I know that shield fighting adds body, it makes sense. I was under the impression it was a really weak virtue!

Rocmistro wrote:
-The chance of doing extra damage is 42%, not 33% (1/3). 5* out of 12 possible successes = 42%

Remembering the dice are S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 G
8+ hits on 8,9,10 and G...
that's 4/12, not 5/12. and 4/12 = 33%.

Rocmistro wrote:Yes, you've missed a lot.

-The fact that simply having a shield also increases your parry by 1/2/3. (and let's face it, anyone who takes this virtue is going to find a way to build their character out using a Tower Shield. So you're looking at +3 parry and +5 damage.)

Just disallow the use of a tower shield. Its bulk makes it too impractical for even the strongest adventurer. I would rule that it is too big to use offensively. Also, where is anyone going to even find one outside of Gondor? I had not noticed any Roman legions roaming about Wilderland.

Otaku-sempai wrote:Also, where is anyone going to even find one outside of Gondor? I had not noticed any Roman legions roaming about Wilderland.

Tower/Great shields are used by the Bardings. It's a Reward for them as well; "Tower Shield".

Otaku-sempai wrote: I had not noticed any Roman legions roaming about Wilderland.

Well, they are in House of the Wolfings.

If I were to put a nerf on Shield Fighting, I would limit it to opponents of up to human/orcish size: in other words, no shield-butting against Trolls and Ogres, let alone Dragons.
Flavour-wise, it's hard to visualize shield butting an opponent of such size (well, you can do it, but his size makes him nigh impervious).
Rule-wise, it's a small nerf from a statistical pov (they are uncommon enemies), but a significant one if you consider that these opponents are the most dangerous ones.

Well, these are my 2c.

Corvo wrote:If I were to put a nerf on Shield Fighting, I would limit it to opponents of up to human/orcish size: in other words, no shield-butting against Trolls and Ogres, let alone Dragons.
Flavour-wise, it's hard to visualize shield butting an opponent of such size (well, you can do it, but his size makes him nigh impervious).
Rule-wise, it's a small nerf from a statistical pov (they are uncommon enemies), but a significant one if you consider that these opponents are the most dangerous ones.

Well, these are my 2c.

I would think the greater total endurance already "nerfs" the shield smash. Plus, a lot of those enemies have Great Size and a shield smash can't, on its own, cause a Wound. So I see your logic, but it feels like an unnecessary complication.

Plus, even trolls have kneecaps. WHACK!

Rocmistro wrote:1. Yep, no problem. I'm constantly going off memory!
2. No, I agree, it's not the virtue's power that gives parry rating, you are right. But it is a synergistic quality that no other combo allows. So, most heroes have to choose between damage output or protection. This virtue gives you both.
3. Right, a roll of 8+ = 8,9,10,11 (eye), 12 (5 results). or does the eye not count here or simply count as a zero?

3.) Revised rules state (on page 27) that the Eye counts as zero and is the lowest possible result on the Feat die. It being the '11' on a regular die is only a convenience thing for those who wish to use other dice.

---

P.S. I forgot to refresh before posting... I'm not trying to dogpile on you...

Rich H wrote:Tower/Great shields are used by the Bardings. It's a Reward for them as well; "Tower Shield".

Oops! Forgot about that.

Elfcrusher wrote:

Corvo wrote:If I were to put a nerf on Shield Fighting, I would limit it to opponents of up to human/orcish size: in other words, no shield-butting against Trolls and Ogres, let alone Dragons.
Flavour-wise, it's hard to visualize shield butting an opponent of such size (well, you can do it, but his size makes him nigh impervious).
Rule-wise, it's a small nerf from a statistical pov (they are uncommon enemies), but a significant one if you consider that these opponents are the most dangerous ones.

Well, these are my 2c.

I would think the greater total endurance already "nerfs" the shield smash. Plus, a lot of those enemies have Great Size and a shield smash can't, on its own, cause a Wound. So I see your logic, but it feels like an unnecessary complication.

Plus, even trolls have kneecaps. WHACK!

I see your point and agree. But since there was some talking about "nerfing" (well, that word is mine) the virtue, I felt like giving my opinion