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If you want to nerf it, I'd change it to Body plus parry bonus of the shield (1 for buckler, 2 for shield, 3 for greatshield). Although, I think it's fine the way it is.

I have been playing with a Man of the Lake with Shield Fighting for long time and we had never an issue with this virtue. Truth be told tough, our TOR sessions are not combat heavy.

As I mentioned in another thread, I added shield-fighting to my simulator and it's statistical impact is significantly higher than any other virtue/reward. But then it was pointed out...and I agreed...that there is a big difference between playing at a table, where you might swing your weapon a few times per session, and a simulation that swings a weapon thirty thousands times in 10 seconds. You might play the game for years and never "notice" the statistical impact of shield fighting. (Then again, the first time you play the game a Lakeman might get a lucky streak and single-handedly win a fight.)

I really wouldn't want to nerf anything. I just want clarification to offer my player a fair ruling.
If it is a strong virtue, I am ok with that.

btw- I (we) didn't know about the Body attribute adding to the damage dealt. We didn't read anything alluding to that in the Virtue itself. My player will like this, and I'm ok with it too if it's written in stone.

But I am still unclear about something.
Is Sauron counted as a success or as a fail/trigger? I seem to have read two schools of thought on this issue.

At present I see it like this, any Shield available to the Laketown Man is ok against any foe they encounter.
Its possible that Body damage may be added to the damage dealt (I will research this and find out from where that applies.)
Rolling 11 (Sauron) on this attack is treated as an 11, not a Sauron.

I love TOR, but interpreting/houseruling is not my joy. Seeing my severely challenged, and then clever, successful, happy players using their capabilities is though.

Thank you all very much

venger wrote:Rolling 11 (Sauron) on this attack is treated as an 11, not a Sauron.

An 'eye' result is never counted as an 11, but as a zero (when players are rolling for their characters or the LM is rolling for 'good-aligned' NPCs). As a side note, the 'eye' and 'gandalf' results are effectively swapped around when the LM is rolling for evil characters.

venger wrote:I (we) didn't know about the Body attribute adding to the damage dealt. We didn't read anything alluding to that in the Virtue itself. My player will like this, and I'm ok with it too if it's written in stone.

It's mentioned in the write-up of the Virtue:

If you are fighting using a shield of any type, when you successfully hit an enemy roll the Feat die again: on a roll of 8+ you inflict an additional loss of Endurance equal to your Damage rating plus the Encumbrance value of the shield you are using (1 for a Buckler, 3 for a Shield, 5 for a Great Shield).

... Bolded for emphasis.

Venger: It says to roll a feat die. A feat die isn't a 1d12; it's a dodecahedron with different numbering, in the same way a dAvg or dF (Fudge) isn't a d6...

And that numbering is, essentially: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Infinity.

It doesn't say to roll a d12. It says to roll the feat die.

If you are fighting using a shield of any type, when you
successfully hit an enemy roll the Feat die again: on a
roll of 8+ you inflict an additional loss of Endurance[...]

And the feat die is defined on p. 27 of 2E as:

How to read the Feat die
The Feat die is a special 12-sided die that is used every
time the game requires a die roll. It has been customised
to produce numerical values ranging from 1 to 10, and
features two special icons: a Gandalf rune (G) and the
Eye of Sauron (S). The two icons are normally read as
follows:

The (G) rune is considered to be the highest result obtainable
on the die. When the die comes up showing the (G) rune,
the action succeeds, whether the total result of the roll was
enough to match or beat the TN set for the roll or not.

The (S) icon is considered to be the lowest result possible
on the Feat die. Under most circumstances, when the Feat
die comes up showing the (S) icon, the die counts as
zero.

Is that what I'm doing wrong, using fudge instead of actual Success dice? No wonder that Snow Troll kicked our rearward stances so badly.

Elfcrusher wrote:Is that what I'm doing wrong, using fudge instead of actual Success dice? No wonder that Snow Troll kicked our rearward stances so badly.

Well, you've got two '+' tengwars, so it works out, right?