Laketown man Shield Fighting question

[venger]

If a Laketown Man rolls a Sauron for his Shield attack, does it trigger a called shot?

[zedturtle]

If a Laketown Man rolls a Sauron for his Shield attack, does it trigger a called shot?

Nope, because you will never have failed your Attack roll, since the possibility of bonus Shield damage necessitates that you made you the Attack roll.

Or, in other words, it's not an attack task, it's a test to see whether you do extra damage.

[venger]

Ok thanks

[Rocmistro]

All that being said, some theory-hammer and play-testing have shown this to be a pretty potent virtue, so if you decided to house-rule it that something bad happens on an "Eye", I don't think the universe would shatter or anything.

[zedturtle]

All that being said, some theory-hammer and play-testing have shown this to be a pretty potent virtue, so if you decided to house-rule it that something bad happens on an "Eye", I don't think the universe would shatter or anything.

Perhaps you drop/lose the shield on a Sauron? No more shield bashing/parry bonus for the rest of the combat?

[venger]

Thanks for the replies

It was the first time it happened yesterday.

In the heat of the moment I ruled the action as an attack, since it took an effort to swing/weild to affect game mechanics to create damage, subjecting it to a Called Shot trigger

You're right, the world didn't shatter, his shield was disarmed which he recovered easily next round and was still able to use it on his next attack.

Later, we discussed it, and the player, a good GM in his own right, made a good point,
It is not truly an attack mechanic since success die are not used, and neither are Body attributes. It just adds a few extra Endurance loss.

Also the Shield attack requires success on a Feat die of an 8 or better... If the Sauron pip is counted a fail, he argued reasonably thats a fairly significant shift in the odds to fail, so I calculated the odds.

No Called shot= 58.3% chance of failure
Yes Called Shot= 66.6% chance of failure AND triggers minor player objection and annoyance on combat(s) that don't significantly impact the Narrative

I like the variability, the possibility that a shield could be dropped in battle. The players... not so much.

I think for the sake of fun, we will say No Called Shot triggered, allowing Character Heroics without penalty

[Corvo]

Let me put the matter in a different perspective:

Grievous add +2 to base damage.
Shield fighting add +1/3/5 to damage, but just one third of the time (so at most it's +1,66 damage)
Unless I missed something, it looks to me there is no need to penalize that virtue

[Rocmistro]

Yes, you've missed a lot.

-The fact that simply having a shield also increases your parry by 1/2/3. (and let's face it, anyone who takes this virtue is going to find a way to build their character out using a Tower Shield. So you're looking at +3 parry and +5 damage.)

-The fact that you add not only the encumbrance of the shield but also your damage rating (body), which is a minimum of 4 for Men of the Lake.

-The chance of doing extra damage is 42%, not 33% (1/3). 5* out of 12 possible successes = 42%

The suggestion here is not that an "Eye" failed to do damage, but rather that something also bad happens on an Eye, like triggering a called shot for the next foe, or dropping your shield aftewards, etc.

[Corvo]

Yes, you've missed a lot.

-The fact that simply having a shield also increases your parry by 1/2/3. (and let's face it, anyone who takes this virtue is going to find a way to build their character out using a Tower Shield. So you're looking at +3 parry and +5 damage.)

-The fact that you add not only the encumbrance of the shield but also your damage rating (body), which is a minimum of 4 for Men of the Lake.

-The chance of doing extra damage is 42%, not 33% (1/3). 5* out of 12 possible successes = 42%

The suggestion here is not that an "Eye" failed to do damage, but rather that something also bad happens on an Eye, like triggering a called shot for the next foe, or dropping your shield aftewards, etc.

Does body add to the damage? Wow, this is what I missed! I'm abroad right now, don't have the Lake-Town booklet with me. This changes a lot

About the shield giving parry... This isn't the Virtue's power. Everyone's shield adds parry. And we aren't houseruling shields, just the shield-fighting virtue.

About 5/12... I was under the impression it was an 8+ roll. Maybe I'm mis-remembering again?

[Rocmistro]

1. Yep, no problem. I'm constantly going off memory!
2. No, I agree, it's not the virtue's power that gives parry rating, you are right. But it is a synergistic quality that no other combo allows. So, most heroes have to choose between damage output or protection. This virtue gives you both.
3. Right, a roll of 8+ = 8,9,10,11 (eye), 12 (5 results). or does the eye not count here or simply count as a zero?