"Delving" (a.k.a. Underground Travel)

[Glorelendil]

UPDATE: Latest Version Available Here.

(Comments about latest version at end of thread.)

I've been working on and off on a Moria adventure, and an important component of that...separate from the actual plot & story...is rules for traveling (and getting lost) in Moria. My vision for this, discussed in other threads, is that the players don't perfectly understand just how lost they are, so their "degree of lostness" is tracked by the LM via a secret variable.

Furthermore, instead of mapping all of Moria (which doesn't feel in the spirit of TOR), these wanderings should be more abstract. In effect, the map gets randomly determined as the party explores.

I've made some progress on rules for this, and have posted them to Dropbox. This is just a draft; I welcome all feedback and criticism. Also, it is a set of general rules, applicable to any underground Realm. Specific realms (e.g. Moria) would likely replace some of the generic Decision Points with more colorful specifics (e.g. Durin's Stair, Chamber Mazarbul, etc.)

New location:
Travel in Underground Realms Google Doc

One thing I'm not satisfied with is the rule for determining how many hours pass before the next Decision Point is encountered. Somehow I'd like to combine it with the previous skill test and consolidate the rolls.

I also think about changing the Decision Point table into one using the Feat die, instead of a Success die, and having special results on Eye and Gandalf. But that leaves me with 10 values and six possible results. I suppose 1-6 could replicate the current table of two skills per result, and 7-10 could each have just one of the four skills. Thoughts?

All ideas/suggestions welcome!

[Glorelendil]

Seriously? 78 views and not a single response? That bad?

I've made some revisions, including:
- Decision Point roll is now a Feat die, with special events on Eye and Gandalf
- Tweaked the changes to Disorientation: a normal failure is +1 Disorientation, a False Success is +2.
- Elaborated on Backtracking
- Cleaned up some of the language to (I hope) make things more clear.

Also moved it to Google docs so that I don't have to keep changing links every time I make a new version:

Underground Travel Rules

[zedturtle]

Seriously? 78 views and not a single response?

I've got thoughts but I've got a trainee this week and fatigued as all. Thoughts tomorrow or Sunday

[Rocmistro]

Don't take it personally, Elf. I'm interested, there's just soooo much stuff to read/comment on, official and fan-brew, in addition to my own stuff.

I'll commit to having some feedback for you by the end of my Vineyard trip

[Throrsgold]

In general, this looks good. Intriguing, in fact. I have run a group in Moria. The group had Balin's expedition group has guides, so there was not a great deal of exploration on their part. Too, they stayed on the eastern side and their hosts knew the areas traversed pretty-well. I used 3 primary sources for locales ("objectives" - to use your rule system's terminology) and flavor/atmosphere: MERP's Moria, Decipher's Moria (Boxed Set), and Lord of the Rings Online's maps and quests. From there, I just used the Journey rules...with a few set encounters.

Have you used these rules, yet or are you still in the creation phase? I found myself wanting more examples from you in order to understand the rules...perhaps use THE Fellowship's trek through Moria? Have you found the secret Disorientation system (HaHa...False Success!) to be aggravating/confounding...I could see a group "lynching" a LM if they think they're succeeding when, in fact, they're lost!

Also, what is the TN for the Fatigue checks? Is it a 14 or is it the "Normal TN" as you refer to in the Decision Point section? Too, is it an overall TN...that is, covering the whole realm...or is it be broken up according to section? I ask, as I play Lord of the Rings Online. There are places my character goes in Moria that are a breeze to navigate and there are several places that are a nightmare (i.e., I easily get turned around..."disoriented" ). So, the areas between Decision Point would seem to need to be different for different sections. Would the Fatigue checks similarly be different? In addition, might not the frequency of the checks be different for different areas. For example, there is a Waterworks area in LotRO that screams to me...uncomfortable! [BTW, this is one area that is easy for me to navigate, but seems to be miserable to traverse.] I would believe every few hours would be more appropriate for such nasty areas.

So, the flow of your progress through the Underground Realm is: make multiple rolls at Decision Points until you arrive at an Objective (e.g., Durin's Stair) (i.e., your Disorientation is at zero) and you rinse and repeat this process until you arrive at the final Objective? Should you have alternate Objectives available for if/when the group stays Disoriented? Or are these possible alternate Objectives actually just more Decision Points?

[Glorelendil]

Thanks for feedback, Thror.

1) This is just in the design phase; have not tested yet.

2) Extended example would be an excellent idea. I'll work on that.

3) TN would be determined by the "dungeon", or perhaps the sub-area. E.g. Western Moria might be 18, deepest mines might be 24. That's for all checks...Navigation, Fatigue, and Corruption.

4) Yes to your summary. I'm not sure I'm satisfied with that model, but that's where it is now.

[aramis]

Seriously? 78 views and not a single response? That bad?

I've made some revisions, including:
- Decision Point roll is now a Feat die, with special events on Eye and Gandalf
- Tweaked the changes to Disorientation: a normal failure is +1 Disorientation, a False Success is +2.
- Elaborated on Backtracking
- Cleaned up some of the language to (I hope) make things more clear.

Also moved it to Google docs so that I don't have to keep changing links every time I make a new version:

Underground Travel Rules

Google Docs makes it easier for me to get to — and also means not having to D/L it.

What I don't like: tracking of a resource which is hidden from players but affects their tasks.

Also, the 2E standard travel tasks, being what they are, are perfectly suitable for dungeon use.

Really, this should be, to my mind, closer to the standard extended resolution modes already present. A tolerance-like number of failures before "Bad Stuff Happens"... and a number of successes+6's to have found one's way before then.

Getting through should be, essentially, an eventuality.

[Rue]

I'm a long way from being able to run an adventure in Moria, but if I ever hear a random stranger say their online name isElfcrusher--well, I'm buying you a beer for all the work you've done to make our LMing lives easier. That and your Merovingian shoutout on another thread. Skellere. Ha!

[Hermes Serpent]

I've really busy this week so I've not had a chance to go over it and compare it to what I've been thinking about. I'm considering running a TOR con game at Indiecon in the Autumn and may well try a variant of my Moria scenario using a set of rules like thins together with my own thoughts. As Lew Pulsipher's Moria scenario was one thing I played as a intro scenario back in the 70's with OD&D the Halls of Durin have fond memories.

[Glorelendil]

Aramis is on the right track. I'm not opposed to a secret variable per se (there are lots of them already, e.g. the Endurance of an adversary) but on reconsideration it's not necessary for the design goal of suspense.

I'm working on a new version, similar to aramis' suggestion, based on a required number of successes on tests of various skills, to travel between between major plot locations. So it will be structured more like Encounter rules. However, I still plan to tweak the travel roles because I think Lore & Riddle should factor in heavily.

The new version will require maps, but not highly detailed ones. More like sketches showing plot locations connected by lines, and the lines will have attributes that indicate how many and what sort of rolls are required to traverse them.