forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

....across the valley the stone-giants were out and were hurling rocks at one another for a game,

These guys are mentioned in the Hobbit: and that's it.
I've always thought of them as the product of Bilbo's vivid imagination and just something he made up for his Red Book, a sort of Traveller's Tall Tales.
But what do people think of them as Hazards or NPCs in a storyline? [I don't remember seeing anything in the pre-order discussion for Rivendell, which is a relief really.]

I don't think I want ask for a 'new' species - and certainly nothing like the "Transformers in Rock Motif" that PJ wasted three minutes of time in the Unexpected Journey. But are they simply a variety of particularly stupid stone troll trying out for a basketball team?

Has anyone considered rules for these creatures?
Does anyone want rules for these creatures? Just curious.

In The Hobbit giants are mentioned several times; they do not get mentions in other works. All we really know about them is that the stone giants that Bilbo saw or heard were large enough to pick up a dwarf and kick him like a soccer ball, and that not all giants were totally evil but none were likely to be better than "more or less decent."

They might be trolls, though they don't seem to be regarded as such. Trolls are characterized quite well in the story, and they seem very different.

Stormcrow wrote:In The Hobbit giants are mentioned several times; they do not get mentions in other works.

Giants are briefly discussed in The Fellowship of the Ring when Sam and a group of Hobbits are talking about strange events in the region.

Otaku-sempai wrote:

Stormcrow wrote:In The Hobbit giants are mentioned several times; they do not get mentions in other works.

Giants are briefly discussed in The Fellowship of the Ring when Sam and a group of Hobbits are talking about strange events in the region.

Huh, the only reference I see is to Tree-men ("giants you might call them" says Sam); some sort of alusion to Ents/Entwives.

I wonder if Tolkien was trying to retcon the giants in the Hobbit into being ents? That would make Gandalf's explanation that some of them were more or less decent make a little more sense...

Or heck, we can just take the Hobbit at face value and say that there are giants running around Middle Earth.

zedturtle wrote:I wonder if Tolkien was trying to retcon the giants in the Hobbit into being ents? That would make Gandalf's explanation that some of them were more or less decent make a little more sense...

And would make Gandalf's silence about them to Treebeard particularly cruel, hiding a potential piece of information about the whereabouts of the Entwives.

Or heck, we can just take the Hobbit at face value and say that there are giants running around Middle Earth.

This is the usual approach of a role-playing game looking to fill out a relatively meager bestiary.

zedturtle wrote:Huh, the only reference I see is to Tree-men ("giants you might call them" says Sam); some sort of alusion to Ents/Entwives.

I wonder if Tolkien was trying to retcon the giants in the Hobbit into being ents? That would make Gandalf's explanation that some of them were more or less decent make a little more sense...

Or heck, we can just take the Hobbit at face value and say that there are giants running around Middle Earth.

The "Tree-men" reference seems to have more to do with size than with appearance. I don't think that Tolkien was writing about Ents or Ent-wives there.

I think that for the time being I would avoid using giants in a game except maybe as flavor-text. There are already enough giant-like creatures in the game in the form of Trolls and Ogres. On the other hand, Gandalf's "more or less decent giant[s]" need not be as large as the stone-giants seem to be.

I see nothing wrong...and much right...about adding Giants to middle-earth. I see nothing wrong with adding material that isn't canon, as long as it doesn't contradict canon. And in this case there's a distinct reference to work from.

They could be reclusive, apolitical creatures who inhabit only the most wild places who spend much of their time sitting still for long periods. But they love storms, and they're suckers for a clever rhyme.

zedturtle wrote:[
I wonder if Tolkien was trying to retcon the giants in the Hobbit into being ents? That would make Gandalf's explanation that some of them were more or less decent make a little more sense...

Or heck, we can just take the Hobbit at face value and say that there are giants running around Middle Earth.

I am happy to take them at face value as ZedT says. But I'm thinking of them as very occasional visitors to the storyline - a sort of potential Hazard for a fellowship to brush against. I can't see them as Ents or even ent-derivatives. Ents are intelligent and start on the side of Good.

I am just curious to see how much of an impact this forum thinks that this reference should have. From The Hobbit I take it that these giants are found in the Misty Mountains. That they come out in a thunderstorm (thunder battle sorry) just made me feel a (stone?) troll element.
Looking at HotW there are some 'easily persuaded stone trolls' who help with farming in the Upper West Vales (I think). Perhaps these are the 'more or less decent sorts' Gandalf is supposed to refer to?

Are they Bad? or are they Wild? If we take them on (mentioned in canon) then I'd prefer them to be independent, but open to persuasion. It would have to be better than fighting them as servants of the Shadow. They might even be available for weight lifting tasks - at a price......

Perhaps the earthly form of a type of Maia that serve Aule?

Given the sources that Tolkien drew from when writing I think he likely did mean "giants" when he wrote that, not "net" or "tree-man". Jotun might be another suitable word. He describes Beorn as being tall enough that Bilbo could walk beneath the hem of his knee-length tunic.

Transformers in rock form is going a bit farther than I see the stone giants being. Tall, grey-skinned manlike creatures I could accept as being part of Middle Earth. I would tend to employ them as a plot device rather than something needing game stats.