Order of Precedence for game sources?

[DavetheLost]

Just curious what different people see as the Order of Precedence for sources for TOR gaming.

For me the C7 published materials come first, followed by the pair of novels, then Silmarilion, HoME, Letters, and finally other Tolkien scholarship.

I place Cubical 7 first because we are talking about playing their game.

Canonical: C7, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings

Deuterocanonical: Silmarillion

Apocrypha: HoME, Letters, etc by JRRT

Midrash: Tolkien Scholarship, Christopher Tolkien's editorial notes, etc

Unreliable: Peter Jackson Movies, Ralph Bakshi Movie

Heretical: MERP, Rankin-Bass

[Dunheved]

I'd have to insert a few
DaveThe Lost's original six would become

1.Canonical: C7, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings
A: Views of contributors to this forum who interpret 1. above
B: IDEAS of contributors to this forum who extrapolate 1. above
2. Deuterocanonical: Silmarillion
3. Apocrypha: HoME, Letters, etc by JRRT; History of the Hobbit;
C: Other Forums of quality - e.g. Council of Elrond; Barliman's
D: Other Tolkien texts - F. Giles of Ham etc (Mewlips = Marsh Dwellers?)
4. Midrash: Tolkien Scholarship, Christopher Tolkien's editorial notes, etc
5. Unreliable - or simply Amusing?: Peter Jackson Movies, Ralph Bakshi Movie
6. Heretical: MERP, Rankin-Bass, Warhammer
E. Irrelevant: D'n'D; GofT; other Fantasy - Conan etc
F: Beneath contempt: Books such as ...(deleted for legal reasons); the promises of politicians;

there is always the overriding condition: whatever makes a good gaming/RP-ing decision for the group.

[aramis]

For me...

1. C7 Rules
2. C7 Fluff text
3. Hobbit
4. LOTR
5. Letters as quoth by others
6. Setting books for the ICE version
7. Anything else by JRRT, when quoth by others

Nothing by Christopher Tolkien.

I don't mind using the movies as visual inspiration, and consider them more than the Younger Tolkien's work... if only because I've actually experienced them.

[Otaku-sempai]

Should the Decipher Middle-earth be placed above MERP?

[aramis]

Should the Decipher Middle-earth be placed above MERP?

Not for me.

For all MERP's failures at creating a Middle Earth feel in play, they had a great grasp of the setting.

Decipher, IMNSHO, failed on both counts (Setting and Play Feel) from what I've seen. (It's also worth noting that Decipher's version was grounded strongly in the LOTR movies.) And it's not that I disliked the system - it's the same engine as D-Trek, and I liked it just fine for trek. I've got the core, and one supplement, and it just doesn't do JRRT's ME.

In other words, it's a good fantasy game, but not good ME game, and a lousy resource for me for running TOR.

[DavetheLost]

Decipher's unfinished LotR game wasn't a bad game. I am sorry that especially the Return of the King sourcebook never saw print, if only to complete the set.

The game was definitely based more on the Peter Jackson movies than on Tolkien's novel.

It was a nice fantasy game to play and sort of did Middle Earth, but definitely missed the mark.

[watley]

I'd have to insert a few
DaveThe Lost's original six would become

1.Canonical: C7, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings
A: Views of contributors to this forum who interpret 1. above
B: IDEAS of contributors to this forum who extrapolate 1. above
2. Deuterocanonical: Silmarillion
3. Apocrypha: HoME, Letters, etc by JRRT; History of the Hobbit;
C: Other Forums of quality - e.g. Council of Elrond; Barliman's
D: Other Tolkien texts - F. Giles of Ham etc (Mewlips = Marsh Dwellers?)
4. Midrash: Tolkien Scholarship, Christopher Tolkien's editorial notes, etc
5. Unreliable - or simply Amusing?: Peter Jackson Movies, Ralph Bakshi Movie
6. Heretical: MERP, Rankin-Bass, Warhammer
E. Irrelevant: D'n'D; GofT; other Fantasy - Conan etc
F: Beneath contempt: Books such as ...(deleted for legal reasons); the promises of politicians;

there is always the overriding condition: whatever makes a good gaming/RP-ing decision for the group.

Liking this thread. My utter contempt for the Jackson movies should have been noted by now.

My order of preferences, with titles, would be:

1. Imperative: C7 material (how else can we play?)

2. Utmost Importance: The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, The Lord of the Rings, HoME, Letters etc by JRRT (It is his world after all)

3. Respectable: History of the Hobbit, academic Tolkien scholarship, other Tolkien texts (F. Giles of Ham, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, etc), Christopher Tolkien's editorial notes, etc

4. Worthy: Ideas from contributors to this forum who interpret or extrapolate any of the above intelligently

5. Handy, but not TOR: MERP (good for maps), other internet forums and printed arty-farty Encyclopaediae/Bestiaries of Arda and Middle-Earth, other OSG (Old School Games) Middle-Earth source material (for example, maps, boardgames etc)

6. Utterly Irrelevant: ANY OTHER FANTASY SETTING (Really? Did this need to be said?)

7. Heretical and Beneath Contempt: Anything by Peter Jackson (on pain of death) (The films are about making money, not Tolkien)

[Glorelendil]

I almost don't know how you can play without the Silmarillion. Without knowing/understanding that history it's just another fantasy setting.

[DavetheLost]

I almost don't know how you can play without the Silmarillion. Without knowing/understanding that history it's just another fantasy setting.

This is what has always attracted me to Tolkien and Middle Earth. From the very first time I read The Hobbit and learned of swords forged by the Elves long ago for the Goblin Wars in Gondolin there was a sense of depth and history. Things had gone before.

Very few fantasy settings, even today, have that sense of history and depth. "For a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of freedom", "Years ago you fought with my father in the Clone Wars." That movie had it.

D&D tried with the Mace of Cuthbert, the Hand of Vecna, and Tenser's Floating Disc, but somehow that wasn't enough.

But Middle Earth, oh, there is rich history, and reasons why things are the way they are.

[watley]

I almost don't know how you can play without the Silmarillion. Without knowing/understanding that history it's just another fantasy setting.

But Middle Earth, oh, there is rich history, and reasons why things are the way they are.

So bloody true ('scuse the 'strine).

The depth of the setting, the echoes of the past, the utter importance of past events effecting the present.
Tolkien knew what he was doing. His understanding of the importance of history upon the present, not to mention the cultures, oral traditions and societal natures of germanic/anglo-sax/scandiwegian/franco/celtic-british peoples and movements, all created a world that is functionally real, while still in the bottom of the garden with the faeries. (Amazingly, for no better reason than that he could. I mean, he wasn't playing D&D with Elmonster or trying to invent something for an existing genre)

The contemptuous failing of many (esp. P.Jackson) in their interpretations is their failure or inability to understand this very fundamental truth, that the present is echoes of the past, scraping across the megalith of deep and ancient history. (just like in real life)

I make sure my players know the history, the tales, the songs as we play. Time lost in telling of the Silmarils, the Trees and the light of Valinor, the Twilight, the Dunedain and Numenoreans, etc has not effected the game. Indeed, the richer the world is for my players, the more they play to the setting. We had an entire session go down during which every Encounter began with the usual ancient hospitality rites, songs and smoking even before the characters got to the gritty stuff. The company barely needs to roll the dice sometimes, because they are fitting in so well with the setting. And, they love it.