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No need to defend it, Francesco. Many of us think it's a brilliant system, with good odds. Maybe even too good, really. I hope to loot far more troves in my career than did Thorin & Co.

Thanks for the probability breakdown Aramis, that always helps.

Francesco wrote:P.S.: sorry if I seem excessively defensive! I'm just taking the chance to illustrate some of the reasoning behind our work.

You certainly haven't come across as defensive and I appreciate your responses which have convinced me to try the RAW out in play before making any alterations.

Elfcrusher wrote:

aramis wrote:I suspect the average troll horde should be 10*. this provides a chance (1-((11/12)^(PC's))) of a treasure. And most of those are going to be merely precious items.

It's Gandalf or Eye, not just Gandalf.

Chance of hit, per PC.
T* 8.333%
T** 15.972% (double: 0.694%)
T*** 77.025% (double: 1.910% Triple: 0.058%)

I don't think you can get "double" or "triple". You stop rolling on the first successful Feat die.

Yep... I stand corrected.

Francesco wrote:Famous Weapons and Armour are meant to be like that - it is stuff of a level that your heroes should expect to see only once or twice in their adventuring career (if ever).

Francesco

I agree with that, and that consideration is probably what we are not used to: in other games you come across Wonder-weapons once or twice per session
Therefore this rules in TOR may seem, at first glance, too stingy on the LMs side.

Francesco wrote:P.S.: sorry if I seem excessively defensive! I'm just taking the chance to illustrate some of the reasoning behind our work.

Never occured to me. I just wanted to make sure that it is clear that I am not tearing the system down. Really, I think it is a very elegant solution to the treasure. I'm just working on the number of times my group had a Gandalf or Eye rune come up during the 8 or 9 sessions that we have played. I think I can count them on one hand. But, we will see what happens when the rubber meets the road and I actually use the system in a game.

Beran wrote:Really, I think it is a very elegant solution to the treasure. I'm just working on the number of times my group had a Gandalf or Eye rune come up during the 8 or 9 sessions that we have played. I think I can count them on one hand. But, we will see what happens when the rubber meets the road and I actually use the system in a game.

My main concern is how many times they come across a hoard of treasure. I don't really factor them into my games as the PCs are all driven by a sense of duty than anything else. I think the mechanic will work fine if you have such hoards as an element in your campaign; as I don't (at least not like in TfW) then I'm concerned that its a cool part of the new rules that me and my group won't get to use much.

Ok, did a bit of a test based on my FtF group (5 players) finding 5 separate T* type hoards...way more then I would have in 10 games, probably. Out of those 25 rolls the group "found" 1 Precious item (Cursed), 1 Wonderous Item and 1 Wonderous Item (cursed). Like I said the dice were rolling hot when Gandalf and crew found 3 Famous Weapons in that T* Troll Hoard.

Rich H wrote:My main concern is how many times they come across a hoard of treasure. I don't really factor them into my games as the PCs are all driven by a sense of duty than anything else. I think the mechanic will work fine if you have such hoards as an element in your campaign; as I don't (at least not like in TfW) then I'm concerned that its a cool part of the new rules that me and my group won't get to use much.

A valid point to be sure. To use D&D parlance it doesn't really bother me if the party all have +1 swords...that could mean that they were forged by a Master Smith, and my not even be magical in origin. But, when you start to get into the level of item that is represented by a "Famous Weapon" in Tolkien then you do start to get into game changing elements which should really be narratively found rather then based on a mechanic. However, it is the LMs responsibility to do so. The topic of Treasure is really a tricky thing to navigate when dealing with a game where the PCs are more driven by duty and doing what is good then by what the loot of the day is.

Yeah, my biggest issue with the rules as written is the likelihood of hoards... Sure, Trolls might have hoards but how often are the heroes going to find those?

My players are not going to steal from burial mounds... Troll/Dragon hoards are just second-hand stealing, but I guess that's okay?

Maybe some Patrons can gift magical items, as appropriate?

I'm going to have to think a little more on this... I want to introduce ways to get magical items into players hands, but I want it to feel right...

Beran wrote:Like I said the dice were rolling hot when Gandalf and crew found 3 Famous Weapons in that T* Troll Hoard.

It wasn't a T* hoard, btw. Elrond mentioned that it contained treasure probably coming from a dragon's. So, more likely a T***.

Francesco

Francesco wrote:

Beran wrote:Like I said the dice were rolling hot when Gandalf and crew found 3 Famous Weapons in that T* Troll Hoard.

It wasn't a T* hoard, btw. Elrond mentioned that it contained treasure probably coming from a dragon's. So, more likely a T***.

Francesco

The descriptor for T* mentions a lonely troll... the horde of the three trolls could easily be T** even without having been augmented by a dragon...