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I think disallowing a Ranger or High Elf has less to do with balance and more to do with roleplay...

It's clear from what's said in the book (and I agree) that Rangers and High Elves do not normally become adventurers and do not involve themselves with people of other cultures as readily as the "basic" cultures.

That being said, a generic description about a culture doesn't mean that every member of said culture has to fit with the stereotype...

There's also the fact that High Elves and Rangers are far more knowledgeable about Middle-Earth then members of other races. So my personal criteria as LM will be that someone that wants to play one of the two will be experienced enough with Tolkien-lore.

I see an awful lot of nerf for what amounts to 1 extra point in all three attributes, and 4-6 extra starting points... tho' the virtues and rewards are quite potent, they're not that much more potent.

And if using the Eye of Sauron rules, a ranger, 3 high elves, and a human are automatically going to get noticed upon entry to Darklands... and travel is going to trigger a LOT of encounters with The Enemy...

Rich H wrote:

Beran wrote:Why is balance so important to some gamers?

I'd say that Ranger/High Elves are actually balanced with the other cultures. Not directly through points distributed at character generation but through the limits of Hope access and other factors. So, the culture may not appear to be balanced at character generation but they are through other game mechanic limitations. That's at least what I suspect and would be interested in seeing if this is born out in actual play.

I agree.

I think someone taking a High Elf or Ranger as a TOR character just for the mechanical advantages is sort of missing the point of the game anyway. Min-maxing and power gaming isn't very Tolkienesque after all.

DavetheLost wrote:I think someone taking a High Elf or Ranger as a TOR character just for the mechanical advantages is sort of missing the point of the game anyway. Min-maxing and power gaming isn't very Tolkienesque after all.

... The more I look at them the more I think that there's actually a debate to be had as to whether the Ranger and High Elf cultures are, in the medium and long term, actually the weakest cultures to pick what with the limits on Hope usage and Shadow management respectively and their slower XP progression for Valour/Wisdom/Weaponskills. I can see them, quite early in a campaign (two or three adventures) being surpassed by other Cultures; their extra XP at character creation being quickly negated by the slower advancement in the above three areas.

I've been thinking the same thing.

DavetheLost wrote:I think someone taking a High Elf or Ranger as a TOR character just for the mechanical advantages is sort of missing the point of the game anyway. Min-maxing and power gaming isn't very Tolkienesque after all.

Tell that to Elrond's player. "I'm a Sindar/Vanyar/Noldor/Edain/Maiar multiclass, raised by two sons of Fëanor, with a Ring of Power, and ..."

"...a kickass headband" (I believe that's how this sentence was supposed to be finished.)

Cultural Reward (High Elves): Kick-ass Headband (cap of iron and leather or helm)

"You own a kickass headband."

(what, did you think there was more to this reward?)

Cultural Reward (High Elves): Kick-ass Headband (cap of iron and leather or helm)

Whenever you roll the Feat die, don't bother you succeed. You may flash a heavy metal gesture to restore 2 Hope to each party member who signs back to you. The bearer of the headband also automatically succeeds on all protection tests if he bears an elven mullet.

Everyone wanted Elrond in their party.

… no, wait, the other thing. No one wanted him in their party.

Elfcrusher wrote:I've been thinking the same thing.

Me too.
Don't have read High Elves accurately yet, but I gave a serious look to the Rangers and I feel they got serious limitations. They got a lot of flavor, but nothing game-breaking (mechanic-wise) to warrant such limitations.
I'm thinking about "watering them down", ie giving them just 10xp at creation and putting aside the special experience cost and the hope sinkhole.