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Okay, page 118 in Rivendell describes how High Elves reduce their Shadow by Marking Skills. Depending on the skill's rating an increasing amount of Shadow can be removed, the table goes as follows:

Skill Rating of 1, reduces 1 Shadow point.
Skill Rating of 2, reduces 3 Shadow points.
Skill Rating of 3, reduces 6 Shadow points.
Skill Rating of 4, reduces 10 Shadow points.
Skill Rating of 5, reduces 15 Shadow points.
Skill Rating of 6, reduces 21 Shadow points.

A High Elf with maximum Hope is going to have between 10 and 12 points so they will be Miserable when they've accrued the corresponding number of Shadow points. Realistically can anyone ever see a player hanging on until that point, never mind until they have 21 points and can then Mark a rank 6 skill to reduce it all.

I can only conclude that I've missed something in the Rivendell rules with regard to High Elves and Shadow in order to justify the need for the rules to accommodate the reduction of Shadow to the magnitude of the higher values in the above 'table'.

Thoughts anyone?

Spend a virtue point and top it off at 14. Work up to 12 shadow. Go on vacation in Angmar and have a really bad time: +9 points.

Elfcrusher wrote:Spend a virtue point and top it off at 14. Work up to 12 shadow. Go on vacation in Angmar and have a really bad time: +9 points.

The issue I see with that is assuming High Elves never use personal Hope *and* that such a journey wouldn't produce a Bout of Madness which would reset Shadow to zero before getting the opportunity to Mark a skill and reduce Shadow.

The table just seems odd-looking considering the numbers we work to in the game with regards to Shadow points which is why it left me wondering if I'd missed anything.

I expect it's just meant to cover edge cases. Not that it's likely that anybody NEED 21 points off, but you can't very well leave it of the table, or break the point progression.

Right...technically a high elf could take "confidence" 5 times for 10 extra hope and get 22 total hope ( and thus that much shadow).

I'm not sure I'm seeing anything here that is convincing me; the suggestions so far sound like we're reaching for an explanation and arriving at pretty extreme edge cases that have little probability of coming up, in a game that historically hasn't legislated for such extremes (and nor should it).

I'm wondering if something has been missed in the rules or if the table progression relates to an old rule that was removed. Would be interested in hearing an official explanation.

I think it's just a case of over engineering. I think the intent is that you don't have to Mark a skill of 6 to get rid of all your shadow. You can cover it with a skill of 4 or above.

Iterating it out to those high levels only really matters for crazy fringe cases, and may be unnecessary, but if you are cool with 10pts at rank 4, then anything above that is gravy.

Rich H wrote: I can only conclude that I've missed something in the Rivendell rules with regard to High Elves and Shadow in order to justify the need for the rules to accommodate the reduction of Shadow to the magnitude of the higher values in the above 'table'.

Thoughts anyone?

• A single spectre encounter can hit 5 new shadow rather quick, based upon a single failed roll. A Nazgûl is worse.
• There's no additional effect of increased shadow once you're miserable.
• It's possible to go quite a while without rolling an Eye of Sauron.
• The Eye of Sauron makes it possible for a party of 5 high elves to be unable to cross the mirwood without as many revelation episodes as the GM wishes.

So, an elf in the 10 point range draws a revelation, gets a bad encounter, fails the corruption roll, the LM spends the 1 hate, and instantly the elf hits 15... and before he can get out, another go from the same nasty finding him again, and the miserable sot has 20 going into the fellowship phase. And that's assuming none for blighted areas along the way.

Oh, and Nazgûl are worse...

Doc is saying what I was trying to say before (when I was typing from phone so keeping it short.) The rule is designed so that, in all probability, you will never have to mark more than a skill of 4 to clear your shadow. But what's C7 supposed to do then? Just stop filling out the table at 4? What if you do have a crazy edge case? What if you've already checked off all your skills of 4 and below, and you just want to know how much shadow it would have been? What if some new rule or situation is introduced in a later supplement?

Maybe they're just future-proofing the game?

I agree with you that 21 seems improbable and excessive, but I'm reminded of a famous quote: "640k ought to be enough for anybody."

Cheers gents, I more comfortable with it now as can see how it could occur, with the new undead and Eye of Mordor rules.