forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

For that matter, Elf, depending on how you read it, the word "only" could be used to modify the word players.

"Players only take into consideration the Encumbrance rating...." (ie, meaning that NPC's and the Loremaster do not take it into consideration, which has some precedent given how LM characters are structured). Note that I'm not saying this is the right way to read it.

I'm still agreeing with Rich here. All the other clues indicate that the Travelleing Gear is not added to encumbrance (and thus fatigue), except on failed travel rolls.

On a related note, here is how I see this all working, devoid of fluff.

CARRIED GEAR = (Travel Gear + War Gear + Additional Gear)

TRAVEL GEAR = (Seasonal Clothing, Food & Water for 1 week, Blanket, Cloak, Musical Instrument)* / **
WAR GEAR = (Armor, Shield, Helm, and any/all Weapons)* / ***
ADDITIONAL GEAR = (Miscellaneous Stuff per the LM and Player)* / ****

* = Has an encumbrance value
** = Encumbrance only generates fatigue when using rules for journeys.
*** = Encumbrance normally calculated to determine fatigue.
**** = Encumbrance generates fatigue if the LM and player determine it to be relevant.

Supporting Statements (all quotes are from Revised Rulebook)

Page 77 (regarding Fatigue Score): "All the Encumbrance ratings of the various items normally carried by a hero are added up to find his fatigue score."
Page 77 (regarding Travelling Gear): "Players only take into consideration the Encumbrance rating of their travelling gear when they are using the rules for resolving a journey" (Jury is out on the operator of the word 'only')
Page 77 (regarding Gear of War): "Their total Encumbrance score is taken into account to find a hero's Fatigue threshold"
Page 78 (regarding Additional Gear) "; usually, Encumbrance is closely monitored only as far as war gear is concerned"
Page 127 (regarding Fatigue): "A character’s Fatigue threshold is first calculated during hero creation and is normally equal to the sum of the Encumbrance ratings of the adventurer’s selection of weapons and protective gear." (If this isn't the deciding factor, I don't know what is..)

Pointing out the three uses of the word "normally" or "usually" (bolded above, emphasis mine), suggests there is an exception to when Fatigue = something more than just War Gear. The only natural and reasonable conclusion of when you calculate something other than War Gear's encumbrance for Fatigue is when you fail a Fatigue test, and thus add your Travel Gear encumbrance. This is based on the fact that there are really only two other scenarios presented in the rulebooks where you really have to pay attention to adding Encumbrance: 1) when claiming treasure and 2) when failing a fatigue test.

Incidental Support
-none of the pre-generated characters have Fatigue values set to include their Travelling Gear.
-most of the chatter on these boards has been conducted with this conclusion in mind, and I don't think I've ever seen Francesco, Andrew or Jon correct/refute/argue those assertions and presumptions.

Everything presented either directly or indirectly shows that Travelling Gear is not added to basic fatigue levels. I don't find any direct evidence to support that it is, although missing pieces of some of the indirect evidence may be interpreted to reach such a conclusion. I think that's an example of stretching the evidence to support a wrong conclusion.

I agree with everything you just wrote Roc, but again I wasn't asking about starting Fatigue score, it was about Beorning "Great Strength", which says "the total Encumbrance of your carried gear." Even you just defined "carried gear" as including Traveling Gear.

God I wish the description simply said "your base Fatigue score". That would solve it for me.

Elfcrusher wrote:I agree with everything you just wrote Roc, but again I wasn't asking about starting Fatigue score, it was about Beorning "Great Strength", which says "the total Encumbrance of your carried gear." Even you just defined "carried gear" as including Traveling Gear.

God I wish the description simply said "your base Fatigue score". That would solve it for me.

Well to be fair, the phrase 'carried gear' is only referred to in the Great Strength virtue and here on page 132:

If a hero reduced the total Encumbrance of his carried gear before taking a prolonged rest, he may now update his Fatigue rating accordingly.

... Carried Gear is never defined as anything, so with regards to the above I refer back to the following for War Gear:

Their total Encumbrance score is taken into account to find a hero’s Fatigue threshold.

And then fatigue on page 127:

A character’s Fatigue threshold is first calculated during hero creation and is normally equal to the sum of the Encumbrance ratings of the adventurer’s selection of weapons and protective gear.

Again, no mention of Travel Gear, so factoring it in when it's never mentioned is an error.

Rich H wrote:

Elfcrusher wrote:I agree with everything you just wrote Roc, but again I wasn't asking about starting Fatigue score, it was about Beorning "Great Strength", which says "the total Encumbrance of your carried gear." Even you just defined "carried gear" as including Traveling Gear.

God I wish the description simply said "your base Fatigue score". That would solve it for me.

Well to be fair, the phrase 'carried gear' is only referred to in the Great Strength virtue and here on page 132:

If a hero reduced the total Encumbrance of his carried gear before taking a prolonged rest, he may now update his Fatigue rating accordingly.

... Carried Gear is never defined as anything, so with regards to the above I refer back to the following for War Gear:

Their total Encumbrance score is taken into account to find a hero’s Fatigue threshold.

And then fatigue on page 127:

A character’s Fatigue threshold is first calculated during hero creation and is normally equal to the sum of the Encumbrance ratings of the adventurer’s selection of weapons and protective gear.

Again, no mention of Travel Gear, so factoring it in when it's never mentioned is an error.

It's listed within the Gear chapter, and has an encumbrance value.

Rich H wrote: Why don't you PM Francesco for clarification on it?

This statement should be stickied as 'READ THIS FIRST BEFORE POSTING'. It would save us from these endless moot court proceedings.

Evening wrote:

Rich H wrote: Why don't you PM Francesco for clarification on it?

This statement should be stickied as 'READ THIS FIRST BEFORE POSTING'. It would save us from these endless moot court proceedings.

I know, right? Junk threads like this one keep pushing important debates about historical verisimilitude in armor off the first page. Pisses me off.

aramis wrote:It's listed within the Gear chapter, and has an encumbrance value.

My previous posts on the subject already deal with that comment, in fact the one you used to reply to does so; it's therefore not much point continuing the debate now as we'd be going round in circles. If previous points haven't convinced you as to the correct way of using travel gear then feel free to keep doing it the way you are, unless it's actually causing you problems (ie, with Great Strength).

Evening wrote:

Rich H wrote: Why don't you PM Francesco for clarification on it?

This statement should be stickied as 'READ THIS FIRST BEFORE POSTING'. It would save us from these endless moot court proceedings.

It's crossed my mind too... Mind, it would stymie certain discussions; and that would be a good or bad thing depending on your point of view.

Elfcrusher wrote:I know, right? Junk threads like this one keep pushing important debates about historical verisimilitude in armor off the first page. Pisses me off.

... And discussions of bear.

Rich H wrote:

Elfcrusher wrote:I know, right? Junk threads like this one keep pushing important debates about historical verisimilitude in armor off the first page. Pisses me off.

... And discussions of bear.

I like brown bear and black bear and some pale bear. No white bear for me, please.

---

Did you ever hear back from Francesco, Elf? I'd really like to the official word on this question...