Beorning "Great Strength"

[Glorelendil]

I know this has been discussed before, but what was the consensus on whether or not Traveling Gear counts toward the 12 Encumbrance limit of Great Strength.

Also, if you drop items (i.e. shield, helm, or throw a spear during the Volley) I know that doesn't reduce your Fatigue (except in the special case of Helm for 1/2 Encumbrance), but what about counting toward Great Strength?

[zedturtle]

I know this has been discussed before, but what was the consensus on whether or not Traveling Gear counts toward the 12 Encumbrance limit of Great Strength.

I think that the general consensus is that Travelling Gear only affects Fatigue tests, it never counts as Encumbrance.

Also, if you drop items (i.e. shield, helm, or throw a spear during the Volley) I know that doesn't reduce your Fatigue (except in the special case of Helm for 1/2 Encumbrance), but what about counting toward Great Strength?

Well, hmmm, Great Strength is in regard to Encumbrance, not Fatigue. It's a gray area... I'd probably be okay with Shield and Helm working that way (since shield would probably be a wash, and Helm is just trading one type of protection for another). Spear I'm less certain of, it would seem to be more of a thing where you've been lugging it around and used it for its intended purpose, so I'd say no.

[Murcushio]

As the player of a Beorning and the instigator of that discussion, as well as a member of a Fellowship where literally every player but me has been getting brutally reamed by Fatigue rolls (I took Hardy, which I invoke on that so often my GM doesn't even ask me anymore) I can say that the consensus reached was that the Encumbrance of your traveling gear ONLY counts when calculating fatigue gain and at no other time.

Meaning that if your specific Beorning is rocking a Great Spear and a leather corslet, as mine is, they'll come to 12 Encumbrance exactly from gear. Meaning Great Strength still applies.

[Rocmistro]

"If the total ENCUMBRANCE of your CARRIED gear is equal to or less than 12"

Encumbrance and Fatigue are not the same thing (although they are obviously intimately related to one another). If you have Great Helm and Great Spear, for example, at the beginning of an adventure, your Fatigue and Encumbrance are the same (10).

If you lose your Great Spear halfway through the adventure, your FATIGUE is still 10, but your ENCUMBRANCE is now 6. Your FATIGUE remains at 10 until such time as you get an extended rest to reset your Fatigue rating, at which point you'll reset your fatigue rating equal to your current encumbrance level (6).

If you fail a travel test in summer after losing your Great Spear, your FATIGUE is now 12, your ENCUMBRANCE is still 6. (until you get an extended rest).

In ALL of the above examples, you still get the Parry benefit of Great Strength.

Also worth noting is that it specifies CARRIED gear, which precludes, I believe, travel gear.

At least, that's how I understand the rules.

[Glorelendil]

"If the total ENCUMBRANCE of your CARRIED gear is equal to or less than 12"

Encumbrance and Fatigue are not the same thing (although they are obviously intimately related to one another). If you have Great Helm and Great Spear, for example, at the beginning of an adventure, your Fatigue and Encumbrance are the same (10).

If you lose your Great Spear halfway through the adventure, your FATIGUE is still 10, but your ENCUMBRANCE is now 6. Your FATIGUE remains at 10 until such time as you get an extended rest to reset your Fatigue rating, at which point you'll reset your fatigue rating equal to your current encumbrance level (6).

If you fail a travel test in summer after losing your Great Spear, your FATIGUE is now 12, your ENCUMBRANCE is still 6. (until you get an extended rest).

In ALL of the above examples, you still get the Parry benefit of Great Strength.

Also worth noting is that it specifies CARRIED gear, which precludes, I believe, travel gear.

At least, that's how I understand the rules.

That's mostly how I read it. In which case dropping your Great Helm would reduce Fatigue by 3 but Encumbrance by 6, of example. And throwing your spear (or your throwing axe...why aren't throwing axes in this game!?!?!) during Volley would reduce your Encumbrance for the rest of the fight.

The only tricky bit is the last part, about Traveling Gear. You certainly "carry" your Traveling Gear, although whether you drop it or not at the beginning of a fight is up for debate (and if you flee does that mean you leave it behind?).

One interpretation would be that it's all carried, including Traveling Gear, unless you have a boat or a pony.

[Corvo]

Elfcrusher, I think that Zedturtle already answered your last point:

I think that the general consensus is that Travelling Gear only affects Fatigue tests, it never counts as Encumbrance.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your doubts (always possible), look at the pre generated character: their total fatigue/encumbrance is the sum of their equipment. Travel gear "weight" is zero till you fail a travel roll

[aramis]

Elfcrusher, I think that Zedturtle already answered your last point:

I think that the general consensus is that Travelling Gear only affects Fatigue tests, it never counts as Encumbrance.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your doubts (always possible), look at the pre generated character: their total fatigue/encumbrance is the sum of their equipment. Travel gear "weight" is zero till you fail a travel roll

None of them even list travel gear in 2E...

But note that Travel Gear is given an Enc score, like all other carried gear.

The way it's worded in 2E looks very much like (and I paraphrase): If you stayed at home for the day, or are spending an extended time staying in one place, you don't need to count the Enc of the Travel Gear, but if you have been travelling, you have to count it because you're carrying it rather than leaving it at your lodgings.

[Glorelendil]

I guess two pieces of evidence that would favor the interpretation that Travel gear encumbrance is only used for Travel rolls:

1) The precise language (although, when I brought it up last time, somebody made the point that English is Francesco's 2nd language so you couldn't count on that. I give him more credit than that, personally.)

2) If you have to count Travel gear for Great Strength, then it becomes a very hard-to-use Virtue. Even without counting Travel gear it's tight. (Leather Corslet, Great Spear and you're there.)

[aramis]

The editors all write perfectly fine English as their primary language.

I do agree that fatigue accrual doesn't count as Enc, but based upon the way I read 1E, and the rewording in 2E, if you're on a journey, it's part of your Enc, as well as adding Fatigue.

[Glorelendil]

Oh, right, I remembered it the other way around. Here's the reference:

Players only take into consideration the Encumbrance rating of their travelling gear when they are using the rules for resolving a Journey (see page 158).

Contrast that with what Francesco did not write: "Players take into consideration the Encumbrance rating of their travelling gear only when they are using the rules for resolving a Journey (see page 158)."

Moving the word "only" to later in the sentence would change the meaning, and I think the contrast between the two clarifies the intended meaning.

As written it doesn't specify where else the Encumbrance of traveling gear is used, but it doesn't preclude it from being so used.

So that leaves, I suppose, the decision up to the LM of whether or not Heroes can drop their traveling gear at the beginning of a fight.