Intimidate foe and rallying comrades

[Glorelendil]

No other combat task is limited to once per combat why should these two be?

Because in Rivendell there are several ways for players to not have to give up their attacks, making the attempts free.

[Hermes Serpent]

I'm not sure I follow Elf. These two tasks specifically state that you use them in place of your attack they do not say 'Once per combat you can use this task'. For some reason the OP seems to think they should be limited to once per combat (per Hero?)

[Glorelendil]

I'm not sure I follow Elf. These two tasks specifically state that you use them in place of your attack they do not say 'Once per combat you can use this task'. For some reason the OP seems to think they should be limited to once per combat (per Hero?)

I'm just saying I understand why he is asking. Under the new rules you could potentially awe/inspire every turn with no downside.

I don't have Rivendell in front of me so I may be missing something.

[doctheweasel]

I'm not sure I follow Elf. These two tasks specifically state that you use them in place of your attack they do not say 'Once per combat you can use this task'. For some reason the OP seems to think they should be limited to once per combat (per Hero?)

I'm just saying I understand why he is asking. Under the new rules you could potentially awe/inspire every turn with no downside.

Well, you are stuck in Forward Stance the whole time, which can eventually take down even the most experienced character.

[daedel]

Ok, I have pm'ed the question to devs, but in the meantime I'll try to explain my concerns about the usage of these two tasks. Please notice I'll go by RAW, not RAI.

In the case of Intimidate foe, suppose the fellowship's got the initiative. If all of them decide as their first turn to Intimidate, they might as well syphoon a very large amount of hate points. If they are facing a low number of creatures, it might happen that after the first round, these creatures don't have hate points to use or a very low number of them. Yeah, all heroes are in forward stance and chances to be hit are pretty high, but creatures without hate points are weary and can go down more easily. Now imagine they do that again for the second round...to me sounds like a cheap way of stealing hate points to monsters, highly diminishing their capacity of posing a threat to them.

In the case of Rallying Comrades, the only prerequisite is that heroes have to have been hit in the current combat. If this qualifies, you can have your best "singer" healing endurance damage once and again, since nothing in the rules say anything about healing above the damage taken in the current combat.

Given the fact that amendments and clarifications document states that now you don't even lose fate points on a failure, I foresee players abusing these two tasks (at least in my group, coming from Pathfinder and used to exploit any rule to their convenience)

[Francesco]

Some considerations...

It seems to me that mostly everyone here got the rules right - there are now no limits in the use of both tasks, apart from forfeiting entirely your attack. This means that if everyone is intimidating, no one will attack and thus inflict no damage.

Now, this tactic might work with isolated creatures (Trolls, usually), and it might indeed be a problem, but it is something we will tackle from another direction if we actually find it constitutes a thing to fix - possibly by revising Great Size (creatures with GS could be made harder, or even impervious to Intimidate), or by adding another special ability ad hoc for such creatures.

With larger groups the problem is not there. If the creatures are puny, Intimidate does what it was designed to do - make the fight shorter. If the creatures are an organised warband, with a mix of creatures, the bigger guys will make the Intimidate roll harder(high Att.level) and there will be a supply of 'cannon fodder' creatures to use to 'soak up' the Hate point loss, while the tougher ones pound away on the Intimidating heroes in Forward stance.

Francesco

[doctheweasel]

In the case of Intimidate foe, suppose the fellowship's got the initiative. If all of them decide as their first turn to Intimidate, they might as well syphoon a very large amount of hate points. If they are facing a low number of creatures, it might happen that after the first round, these creatures don't have hate points to use or a very low number of them. Yeah, all heroes are in forward stance and chances to be hit are pretty high, but creatures without hate points are weary and can go down more easily. Now imagine they do that again for the second round...to me sounds like a cheap way of stealing hate points to monsters, highly diminishing their capacity of posing a threat to them.

After seeing a number of fights go down in this game, a round (let alone two) spent with the whole party in Forward Stance without attacking anyone is a recipe for a TPK.

The only way it would be alright is if there were very few, medium-small enemies, and then your time is better spent actually dispatching them.

[daedel]

Thanks Francesco (and the rest, ofc) for answering. Yes, my example was about a group of few creatures, that tactics with a large group of monsters is suicidal. So both actions can be used more that once.

[Francesco]

Thanks Francesco (and the rest, ofc) for answering. Yes, my example was about a group of few creatures, that tactics with a large group of monsters is suicidal. Can you please also clarify rallying comrades? Can you use it ad infinitum in a combat, or just once?

It works just the same as Intimidate Foes.

Now, you are right in suspecting that in wrong hands this might be abused. Problem is, I design games with a friendly environment in mind. Faced with the prospect of adding a lot of bookkeeping to ensure that players recover only Endurance lost in the current encounter, I choose the simpler way and trust in their own 'good taste'.

So, if you fear that your players will abuse the task, try to tell them Tolkien sends them a scowl of rebuke from the grave. If it doesn't work, enforce a house rule where you can recovery exclusively Endurance lost in the current fight. Being Pathfinder players I think they won't resent too much the added bookkeeping.

Francesco

[daedel]

He he, good hints. Alright Francesco, thanks for taking time to answer all this, much appreciated.