Rascally Raven

[Morten]

have the raven safely reach it's destination and deliver the massage correctly

Great Virtue this Raven.
Should reduce Fatigue from failed Travel tests, too.

Yeah, the raven comes from the lands far east of Rhûn, where they are quite skilled at such things, it's also proficient at Rhudaurian sensual massage.

[Glorelendil]

This is, of course, the same problem that arose so frequently in D&D with Passwall, Detect Lie, Teleport, etc. I suppose the LM/DM/GM could just say, "ok, you guys win...here's the treasure."

Then again, I'm glad Gandalf didn't think to ask the Eagles to fly Frodo straight to Mt Doom. Would have been a short book.

[Morten]

This is, of course, the same problem that arose so frequently in D&D with Passwall, Detect Lie, Teleport, etc. I suppose the LM/DM/GM could just say, "ok, you guys win...here's the treasure."

Then again, I'm glad Gandalf didn't think to ask the Eagles to fly Frodo straight to Mt Doom. Would have been a short book.

Or... you could foster an attitude of trust and cooperation where the players and LM recognize that they work together at creating the story, and that it's not the task if the LM to hose the characters or to block the players input, as little as it is the players task to minmax the rules or shortcircuit the adventure.

If either of the players are unwilling to share in the common responsibility to further the story and contribute to the fun of everyone, or if the LM is unvilling to let them partake in that responsibility, then that is the problem. Not that the rules or adventure are written in such a way that it doesn't curtail any and every attempt to sabotage them.

[Arthadan]

Then again, I'm glad Gandalf didn't think to ask the Eagles to fly Frodo straight to Mt Doom. Would have been a short book.

He couldn't! The Great Eagles are the messengers of Manwë and as such they are mainly witness of the strugle between the Free Peoples and Sauron, but they cannot be decissive in that conflict (the help the Valar sent are the Istari and even they do not unite to destroy Sauron). Although the Eagles can help (rescuing Gandalf from Orthanc, saving Frodo and Sam from Mount Doom...).

About the raven, I'd do as suggested. Let it arrive to Beorn, send it back and forth a couple times (poor animal will need to rest in between too) and have Valter arrive in time for the battle before Beorn.
other option is Beorn is not at home for whatever reason and the raven returns empty handed...

[Glorelendil]

This is, of course, the same problem that arose so frequently in D&D with Passwall, Detect Lie, Teleport, etc. I suppose the LM/DM/GM could just say, "ok, you guys win...here's the treasure."

Then again, I'm glad Gandalf didn't think to ask the Eagles to fly Frodo straight to Mt Doom. Would have been a short book.

Or... you could foster an attitude of trust and cooperation where the players and LM recognize that they work together at creating the story, and that it's not the task if the LM to hose the characters or to block the players input, as little as it is the players task to minmax the rules or shortcircuit the adventure.

If either of the players are unwilling to share in the common responsibility to further the story and contribute to the fun of everyone, or if the LM is unvilling to let them partake in that responsibility, then that is the problem. Not that the rules or adventure are written in such a way that it doesn't curtail any and every attempt to sabotage them.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. But I think it goes both ways: if the players find a way to circumvent what promises to be a great story, they should trust the LM when their plan doesn't work. Even better if they don't realize what the LM is doing, but if they do know they should be ok with it.

[Glorelendil]

Then again, I'm glad Gandalf didn't think to ask the Eagles to fly Frodo straight to Mt Doom. Would have been a short book.

He couldn't! The Great Eagles are the messengers of Manwë and as such they are mainly witness of the strugle between the Free Peoples and Sauron, but they cannot be decissive in that conflict (the help the Valar sent are the Istari and even they do not unite to destroy Sauron). Although the Eagles can help (rescuing Gandalf from Orthanc, saving Frodo and Sam from Mount Doom...).

Perfect example.

Player: "We'll ask the Eagles to fly us to Mordor. I have Standing 6 with them."
LM: "Uh...they won't do it. They're messengers of Manwe and can't interfere."
Player: "Can't interfere! I would have died with Bilbo and the dwarves, and the ring would have fallen into Enemy hands, years ago if it weren't for the Eagles! Smaug would still be alive!"
LM: "Yeah, well, that was indirect interference. Flying you to Mordor would be direct interference..."
Player: "..."

Tolkien, like a good LM, knew when to say, "Just trust me, ok? This is going to be a great story..."

[Falenthal]

Regarding the question, I usually try to come out with one of this solutions:

1) Make the players belief that their actions changed the course of things, but play the same scene. This, of course, can only be used if the players don't know what was originally going to happen.
I can't remember how exactly went this adventure, but maybe you can play the battle at the ford, only changing that the beornings have set an ambush or have some kind of advantatge. The battle can be more or less the same, only your players will think that, had they not sent the message, the beorning villages would be burning down.
Give them the illusion of having changed the story. Believing they did is enough in a fantasy game.

2) Save the "epic moment" for another adventure. Keep the chapter about the ford battle in your mind and use it for another adventure where you see it fits.

What I normally try to avoid is making them feel like their ideas, or their character development (rewards, virtues,...), doesn't have any impact on the story. They should change the story, not the other way round ("yeah, I know you have a raven and Beorn can speak to animals, but my story is more important than your character".)
If you end up doing this many times, your players might tell you to go write a book instead of running rpg adventures.

[Falenthal]

[The raven will] be at Beorn's house in about three hours.

In other words, this changes the entire resolution of the scenario, and makes it pretty hard for Valter to get near both Stonyford and The Old Ford.

I've been re-reading the adventure and I thought "what does change?". In fact, the outlaws are still going to attack Stonyford, so there's still going to be a battle. The most decisive point in the adventure is not if Beorn is informed before time or not, but what happens with Oderic's loyalties.
Even if Beorn summons an army to face Valter, their best chance is still taking the battle to a ford, and ambushing the outlaws as they cross the Anduin. I don't think he would be marching across the river and attack the bandits in their camp.

The raven can inform the beornings, and the player's, instead of forcing the march to reach Beorn's House, can use their time to muster Stonyford's habitants and to prepare the defense of the town.

I don't think you have to avoid the battle at the ford, only that it should grant a better advantage for the good guys. Use the best situation that the adventure proposes: lowest Hate Points for the outlaws, best TN for the heroes Battle Rolls.

[Aeglosdir]

.

[Dunkelbrink]

I agree with Farenthal and can't really see the issue here. As stated above and in the scenario, the place of the battle depends on what Oderic is doing. Is he with the company, guiding the outlaws or tricking them? There will still be a battle, the only question is where. According to the scenario, Valter will lead his men to The Old Ford only if Oderic is a prisoner.

I would say the raven adds to the excitement. Send the raven and the company can spy on the outlaws instead of just marching. But how long do they have? How long will it take for Beorn to gather an army and did he trust the raven? Maybe make the dwarf roll Persuade to instruct the raven, the LM could even make the roll behind his screen. So now the company is shadowing a band of outlaws with no idea of when and where Beorn's army will show up. This could take days, actually when I read the scenario I thought that having an army ready the next dawn seemed a bit unlikely. The mustering could of course take as long as you want, and it could be ready to march and meet the outlaws right in time, all thanks to the raven!

When I ran the scenario there was no raven, but the beorning in the party had the virtue Nightgoer which meant I had the same case to handle. She travelled fast during the night and warned Beorn. They prepared an ambush in the Gloomy Fold and it was still very epic.

/Magnus