First TOR game

[Valdur]

Just started playing in my first TOR a few weeks ago and our party just reached it's first fellowship phase and I have some questions.

1. Raising maximum Endurance seems VERY slow but even if I choose Virtues that increase my Endurance for all 6 Wisdom I can only get 38-40. This is most likely by design but looking at monster's damage how do players survive for so long?

2. Why can Bardings of Dale who have Beorn as a Patron, Sanctuary at Beorns home, and spend a fellowship phase there cannot get a Bearded axe if they wanted to? The elves of Lothlorien gave the entire fellowship cloaks and other gifts, not sure why the culture restricts you if you are "elf friend" or "beorn friend".

3. When "recovering" from a fight, you do get back your heart in endurance if you have a short respite?

4. If you receive 2 wounds but still have Endurance do you die? I was under the influence that you have to be at 0 endurance and be wounded and then wounded again to die.

Thanks in advance for any help, sorry if the questions are basic but the game is going well just these few issues have come up and was hoping for some clarification.

[aramis]

1. Raising maximum Endurance seems VERY slow but even if I choose Virtues that increase my Endurance for all 6 Wisdom I can only get 38-40. This is most likely by design but looking at monster's damage how do players survive for so long?

Teamwork, knowing when to not stick around, and learning how to work the combat mechanics. Don't stick a party against three trolls, either; it's a tough row for a party to take on ONE troll. (Remember, Bilbo beats them by parley until dawn turns them to stone.)

4. If you receive 2 wounds but still have Endurance do you die? I was under the influence that you have to be at 0 endurance and be wounded and then wounded again to die.

No. Looking at the LM screen...

Unconscious: either (1) Wounded twice or (2)Zero End.
Dying: Wounded and Zero End.

3. When "recovering" from a fight, you do get back your heart in endurance if you have a short respite?

LM screen says a rest of about 30 minutes, and notes that wounded characters don't get any End back.

[Yusei]

1. Raising maximum Endurance seems VERY slow but even if I choose Virtues that increase my Endurance for all 6 Wisdom I can only get 38-40. This is most likely by design but looking at monster's damage how do players survive for so long?

The trick is not getting hit. When you get stronger with your weapon, you can fight in defensive stance, and not get hit often. When you get hit, you can use knockback to half your damage.

2. Why can Bardings of Dale who have Beorn as a Patron, Sanctuary at Beorns home, and spend a fellowship phase there cannot get a Bearded axe if they wanted to? The elves of Lothlorien gave the entire fellowship cloaks and other gifts, not sure why the culture restricts you if you are "elf friend" or "beorn friend".

I do allow exceptions when it makes sense, story-wise.

[doctheweasel]

2. Why can Bardings of Dale who have Beorn as a Patron, Sanctuary at Beorns home, and spend a fellowship phase there cannot get a Bearded axe if they wanted to? The elves of Lothlorien gave the entire fellowship cloaks and other gifts, not sure why the culture restricts you if you are "elf friend" or "beorn friend".

I think the only real answer here is "because the GM won't let them." I think one of the most important tasks a GM has is knowing when to use the rules and when not to.

[SirKicley]

Just started playing in my first TOR a few weeks ago and our party just reached it's first fellowship phase and I have some questions.

You've gotten some good advice and info on using the mechanics. Pay heed to it all and this should help. Allow me to chime in as well though:

1. Raising maximum Endurance seems VERY slow but even if I choose Virtues that increase my Endurance for all 6 Wisdom I can only get 38-40. This is most likely by design but looking at monster's damage how do players survive for so long?

While not a popular answer amongst all, it has to be said: TOR is not a Hack-n-Slash game. When approached as such with many combats etc, it can easily be seen that Endurance with these totals are indeed not going to suffice.

instead, it is important to to note that most combats should be avoided when possible. "Hazards" such as knowing there's a monster lurking out there should be something that the PCs use skills etc to avoid, and consciously steer away from. So "possible combats" or the threat of combats should be a "hazard" like obstacle that generates fear and anxiety. Besides, senseless attacking and killing so many around you is not in the "good" spirit of Middle-earth. Non-combative ways of ending encounters, or resolving conflicts are far more popular in that setting. Wrathful aggression all the time should cause an increase of Shadow.

If you're playing with a bunch of players that just want to go attack everything Hackmaster style, you will have two choices:

1) If that's the kind of game you want - go for it, by all means, find a way to add more Endurance for the players - maybe start off with twice the listed total. Who knows....? Hey if that's they way you roll and have fun, who's to say you're wrong.

2) If you prefer a more true-to-feel of Middle-earth setting and the game, then you simply have to let the players know up front that this is not your hackmaster type game. If they still insist on attacking everything, let the players learn the hard way. There endurance won't last, and healing is not prevalent (there's no channelling, or Cure Moderate Wounds wands). Getting wounded SUCKS! And takes a long time to heal, and it takes a long time to heal up your endurance when wounded. The next combat will be worse. Fatigue and WEARY sets in and suddenly you're not as effective swinging your weapon, (1s, 2s, and 3s on success dice no longer apply). So now your skills, and your attacks are both majorly hindered. Furthermore, you're now more susceptible to Corruption tests and Fear because of your Weary state AND protection tests to avoid another wound! Taking that much longer to heal for the next combat. On an lengthy journey, a group of gung-ho hack and slashers are going to realize very rudely that it just doesn't work.

The heroes of the Fellowship fought only when they had to. This should remain true if the spirit of the world and game is to be embraced fully.

Furthermore, there's little "in game" rewards for actually killing a bunch of critters. You get no XP, and rarely are carcasses looted for "Treasure Type." Hope doesn't recover. Once the players realize just how damning combat can be on a journey, you're now able to really add a layer of fun and excitement to the game that is hard to manufacture in a lot of other games. The players will sweat as they hide in hollowed tree after finding evidence of a troll lurking about. They will risk injury scaling a jagged cliff to avoid a warg den. They will kill the first small scouting party of orcs, but when the horns are heard echoing as others are no doubt closing in on their locations, they will no doubt make a litany of curses and scramble to find an escape route.

Skills of tracking, stealth, etc, to find and evade possible threats should be a popular theme in most journeys. If played this way, the Endurance scores are well balanced for surviving must-fight battles, and avoiding those that can be.


It's worth noting - that by enjoying the game in this way - also lends more importance to the roles that the heroes play in their fellowship: Guide, Look-Out, Scout, Hunter. These become a vitally important aspect of the journey as they realize their survival depends on each other to find possible threats and help find alternate routes or ways to evade.

2. Why can Bardings of Dale who have Beorn as a Patron, Sanctuary at Beorns home, and spend a fellowship phase there cannot get a Bearded axe if they wanted to? The elves of Lothlorien gave the entire fellowship cloaks and other gifts, not sure why the culture restricts you if you are "elf friend" or "beorn friend".

I know there are some who override this restriction when it truly makes sense. I won't say don't do it - but If you do - I would caution only to do so sparingly. It should be a rare occurrence.

This is merely a matter of flavor. I personally would not - only because it would steal something that makes the party's Beorning special if any of the others could also get it. BUT this is not to say you couldn't weave into the story some other nice Beorning gift that other PCs receive - such as an increase in standing.


My ideas I shared are my opinions - and that and 2 dollars will get you coffee. It is not necessarily the way everyone else feels or plays by, nor is it any any way official canon of the game. Feel free to ignore completely, or cherry-pick what feels right to you - it won't hurt my feelings. Regardless, I hope that I've been helpful.



ANECDOTE: when I first started playing TOR, my group and I came from a long history of playing D&D and Pathfinder. It took a few of the players a while to catch on that this is not the same style of kill every monster game that those are, and they learned the hard way of no surplus of healing issues. Furthermore, a couple learned the hard way that although there is no "alignment" system, there are grave consequences for being ruthless and overly aggressive (non-good intentions) when the Shadow points started rolling out. Now they avoid as many combats as they engage, and there are many combats where they obtain their objective, and choose to flee the rest of the critters coming at them - they'll gain nothing by killing the last 10 spiders, and stand to lose a whole lot. They've found and freed the one person they were sent to save - no sense in foolishly risking loss of a hero's life, etc, or making the rest of the journey hell with a couple heroes with horrible wounds and wearied hearts.

[Beran]

Also, the equipment that was given to The Fellowship at Lorien by the Elves was intended to assist them in a mission that had world spanning consequences.

[Treadwell]

Perhaps if your player now feels so close to Beorn's people he might swear service to Beorn and become a Beorning himself. He could then advance as a Beorning in future. This kind of playing fast and loose with the rules subborning them to the story you are telling. It should be a rare event in a story but if it makes the story better - go for it.

[SirKicley]

Also, the equipment that was given to The Fellowship at Lorien by the Elves was intended to assist them in a mission that had world spanning consequences.

Tru Dat! +1. Great Point. (insert other agreeable cliche' comment here).

[Valdur]

Thank you all for the tips and advice. We recently just got the Laketown book and LM screen that helped a lot. When does the PDF for the new book come out? I can't wait to see the new information and the new cultures.

[Mim]

@Valdur, the pdf of The Heart of the Wild is (tentatively) scheduled for approximately mid to late July, and the book itself the following month. Different global regions seem to delay their shipment, however, so we've all learned the hard way to give them some leeway on their schedules

@Sir Kicley,

ANECDOTE: when I first started playing TOR, my group and I came from a long history of playing D&D and Pathfinder. It took a few of the players a while to catch on that this is not the same style of kill every monster game that those are, and they learned the hard way of no surplus of healing issues. Furthermore, a couple learned the hard way that although there is no "alignment" system, there are grave consequences for being ruthless and overly aggressive (non-good intentions) when the Shadow points started rolling out. Now they avoid as many combats as they engage, and there are many combats where they obtain their objective, and choose to flee the rest of the critters coming at them - they'll gain nothing by killing the last 10 spiders, and stand to lose a whole lot...

This is excellent news Robert & it seems that your players have learned to delve into Middle-earth. Congratulations! I recall your initial concerns from the previous boards, but everything seems to be going swimmingly. Many of us originate from the same D&D background, & it can be a tough learning curve to play Middle-earth well & do justice to the books.