Wild Wolf Attacks

[Seosaidh]

In the revised rulebook, the Wild Wolf only has a single attack: Bite. It is a favoured skill, level 2. However, it also has the Seize Victim special ability. This ability seems worthless without a second attack (mainly Rend). Does the abcense of Rend from the weapon skill list for the Wild Wolf mean that the Wild Wolf has skill 0 in Rend, or that the Wild Wolf cannot use Rend?

[Hermes Serpent]

It's far from useless. Like all creatures with a Seize Victim ability the LM needs two of them, one to seize (thereby negating part of the hero's Parry and their ability to change stance) and one to follow up and do the biting for effect. I particularly like Great Bats and Wolves for their combo abilities. Great Leap and Fell Speed mean that the Adversaries can attack anyone (particularly the pesky Elvish archer at the back), Bite and, on a success, Seize Victim and keep them pinned for another creature to attack. The Great Bat's ability to Bewilder before using Fell Speed makes heroes in a Defensive stance much easier to hit once they've had their Parry bonus taken away.

Using both creatures to aid a goblin war party can make a combat lethal. The Bats scouting with their Favoured Perception which helps against being ambushed by the company and in Searching for them, the Wolves with their Favoured Movement which gives them good Travel and Stealth for pursuing the heroes. The Bats have a good score in Movement without it being Favoured which is certainly a help in the hunt. Finally both creatures have a reasonable level of Survival making Explore and Hunting tests easier to pass.

The more I play this game the more I appreciate the thought that has gone into the design of every part of it. The way things interact, Special Abilities and the Adversary stats, all combine to enhance the Middle-earth feel of the game with a nod to simulating the actions of real-world creatures.

Getting back to your question the lack of Rend (only available to a Wolf Chief I think) is not an omission but intentional as I believe Wolves are supposed to use Bite and their Seize Victim power to harry a company in pairs.

[Gil_galad_82]

With regards to goblin/orcs riding wolves, seize victim is also useful to give the rider an easy chance to hit an enemy siezed by its mount...

[Seosaidh]

Really good ideas for combo use! You're right, its not useless, I just need to get back into the habit of thinking strategically. So given that the omission is intentional, would you allow a Wolf that has Seized Victim to use Rend (as a 0 level skill) or rule that the Wolf cannot act until either it releases its victim, or the victim escapes? Can a player-hero even use a weapon that they have 0 skill in? (I would guess yes, but just to see other's opinion). Really, I guess this translates to a larger question: If a given adversary does not list a particular weapon in its weapon skill list, can it still use that weapon (at skill rank 0 i.e. just rolling the Feat die and no Success dice), or is that creature restricted to only use weapons that it has listed in its weapon skill list?

[Hermes Serpent]

Regarding Rend., I wouldn't give a Wolf any options other than Bite and the Seize Victim follow-up. They don't need to be trying to tear chunks out of their opponents. It works much better to lock them in place for other pack members to Great Leap in and Bite with the reduced Parry (even better if you have them locked in Forward stance). Remember that the Wolf Called Shot allows for a Pierce and Great Leaping in and Biting a hero who has rolled an Eye is just the nerve-wracking thing that an LM needs to ramp up tension. The Edge of 10 is going to pop up frequently enough with multiple Wolves that even heroes in 3 or 4D armour will have to be concerned that they may fall short of rolling Injury 14.

AFAIK the rules only allow for Common Skill tests to be at zero rank. I certainly wouldn't start giving any Adversary extra weapons or attacks at zero ranks without the intent being given by the stat block.

(Edit: AB p26 under Skills: If no boxes are filled, then the character simply rolls the Feat die.
I can find no similar statement for Combat/Weapon skills)

[Ferretz]

Interesting, especially with the combination of warg and orc/goblin rider. With no rules for mounted combat in the game yet (fingers crossed for the Rohan book), I feel that warg riders should be treated as a single entity. Kind of like the Men of Tyrant Hill and their wolfhounds in the beginning of Darkening of Mirkwood.

So, have anyone used warg riders in TOR fights yet? How did you handle it?

Eirik

[Hermes Serpent]

Can anyone quote some canon for orcs/goblins attacking mounted on wolves/wargs?

I know of the bit in the Hobbit 'Sometimes they rode on wolves like men do on horses.' and bit in the two Towers where wolf riders are mentioned as scouts but is there any section where they are mentioned other than as transport?

[Ferretz]

I think it's implied, although there are some things in the books that just doesn't hang together, in my opinion. For instance, are Wild Wolves regular wolves? In that case, no goblin or orc could even sit on it's back, unless they were the size of a toddler.
So a lot of stuff is impled in the books. Wild Wolves, are not regular wolves. They are pony-sized, wolf-like beasts, or at least that's how I always read it.

And then there is the picture in Tales from Wilderland, in the Crossing of Celduin adventure. Goblins and orcs mounted on huge wolves, charging the heroes on the bridge. Not canon, I know, but epic.

Eirik

[Dunheved]

Can anyone quote some canon for orcs/goblins attacking mounted on wolves/wargs?

I know of the bit in the Hobbit 'Sometimes they rode on wolves like men do on horses.' and bit in the two Towers where wolf riders are mentioned as scouts but is there any section where they are mentioned other than as transport?

I don't know about licence, but in Unfinished Tales there are accounts of the Battles around the Fords of Isen just before Helm's Deep. A part description is ' a great pack of the dreadful Orcish wolfriders, feared by horses '
One of the footnotes about this idea states that the wolfriders would "slash at the bellies of the horses".
Now : these are Saruman's forces and the wolfriders were reinforced by Dunlending horsemen, not Goblins from the North, so we must be able to have some room to interpret their abilities and attack style.

However, since some skill at fighting (slashing) from wolf-back seems quite likely, I suspect that if a wolf were to stand still to attack a man the goblin/orc on its back would just weigh the wolf down or hinder its free movement. It feels more effective to me if the wolf acts as a swift delivery system for a goblin: dropping the goblin off in order for the wolf to use a Seize Victim attack followed by a goblin assault with a sword.
The other way to attack would be for a wolf rider to move past a foot soldier; have one chance at a slashing attack at the infantryman; and then move to somewhere else.

Best defence? Spear down the wolf throat and have a second man ready with an axe to chop the goblin up!

All this is getting complicated isn't it? Anyone got a simple mechanic for this combination?

[Ferretz]

Off the top of my head, I would just make it a single entity, as I mentioned.

Maybe something like this to make the stats?

Attribute Rating: Highest of rider and wolf +1
Endurance: Highest of rider and wolf + half of the lowest
Hate: Add up the rider and wolf
Parry: Use the rider's Parry
Armour: Use the rider's Armour, but it becomes Favoured.
Skills: Use the highest rating for the rider and the wolf for each skill group, and add any Favoured.
Weapon Skills: Primary weapon becomes the rider's primary weapon. Secondary weapon becomes the wolf's primary weapon.
Special Abilities: Add them all up, but add Savage Assault if it doesn't already have it.

So, an Orc Soldier mounted on a Wild Wolf would look something like this:

Attribute Rating: 4
Endurance: 18
Hate: 2
Parry: 3+1 (buckler)
Armour: 3d
Skills: Personality 2, Movement 3, Perception 3, Survival 2, Custom 1, Vocation 1
Weapon Skills: Bent Sword 2, Bite 2
Special Abilities: Hate Sunlight, Craven, Fear of Fire, Great Leap, Seize Victim.

These stats might be servicable. Haven't tried them out yet, though.

E.