Ranger background: Counsellor

[buddhax]

I don't really follow completly the backgrounds, I like the idea of them as examples to follow when I create or I listen a background for a player. But anyway, the Counsellor background for Rangers of the North seems wrong to me.

Body 8, Heart 5, Wits 4 and Favoured Riddle. Why so much in body when this background seems to rely on Wits. I think this is an errorr.

[Curulon]

I don't really follow completly the backgrounds, I like the idea of them as examples to follow when I create or I listen a background for a player. But anyway, the Counsellor background for Rangers of the North seems wrong to me.

Body 8, Heart 5, Wits 4 and Favoured Riddle. Why so much in body when this background seems to rely on Wits. I think this is an errorr.

Well, if you look, all the Ranger backgrounds either have a Body of 6, 7, or 8, a Heart of 5, 6, or 7, and a Wits of 3, 4, or 5. I can't answer specifically your question regarding why Counsellor has a Body of 8, but I think it may have just been an instance of they needed another Body at 8, and this background got it.

But, Riddle makes sense because it's the skill that "represents a hero’s ability to draw conclusions from seemingly unconnected scraps of information, by deduction, reasoning and intuition".

[Hermes Serpent]

@buddhax, we had a discussion a longish time back where the range of Attributes for each Culture was examined and the numbers are grouped together and each original culture has one Attribute at 2-4, one at 4-6 and one at 5-7 and the various spreads were consistent across the various Backgrounds. There's obviously a mechanical reason for that but that doesn't mean that one Background didn't get a mistyped number somewhere.

E.g. Barding Backgrounds run Body 4,5,6, Heart 5,6,7 and Wits 2,3,4. All the various Backgrounds across all original cultures add up to 14 in each Background

Ranger Backgrounds run Body 8 Heart 6 Wits 3, and 8,5,4, then 7,7,3 and 7,6,4 and 7,5,5 and 6,6,5 so Body 6-8, Heart 5-7 and Wits 3-4 so generally all three add to 17.

Rivendell Elf Backgrounds run 5,5,7 then 6,5,6 and 7,3,7 and 6,4,7 and 6,3,8 and 5,4,8 so from Body 5-7, Heart 3-5 and Wits 6-8 again all three add to 17 so the same as Rangers.

The Backgrounds numerical progression seems correct and in line with what we had before so it must be purely the allocation of the descriptive text to the number range that's causing you some concern. maybe writing up your own descriptive text would help get you head around the ranges in Backgrounds.

[JoeArcher]

Just curious about the rivendell elves and rangers. They have a total of 17 instead of 14. Is that because they're a different sort of background? Is there a particular reason they aren't balanced at 14 like the others? My first thought was that they were part of a progression that you could pick later. I'd really have to talk with a few of my players if we were to play this, since I know I would get the "Why shouldn't we all pick those when they're better?"

As much as my players are good role players a few of them do have that itch where they consider the mechanical side of their characters.

[Dunkelbrink]

JoeArcher: I suppose you haven't read the Rivendell sourcebook yet? The answer is there; the Rangers and High Elves start out more powerful but progress more slowly and have their particular weaknesses as well (the Rangers being unable to draw Hope from the Fellowship pool for example). Haven't tried them in play yet, but they seem perfectly balance to me at first glance.

[JoeArcher]

JoeArcher: I suppose you haven't read the Rivendell sourcebook yet? The answer is there; the Rangers and High Elves start out more powerful but progress more slowly and have their particular weaknesses as well (the Rangers being unable to draw Hope from the Fellowship pool for example). Haven't tried them in play yet, but they seem perfectly balance to me at first glance.

That's great. No I haven't read the books, but will certainly get them. I was just curious about how they had done it and a slower progression plus downside adds an interresting option to players. Cheers

[Falenthal]

I don't really follow completly the backgrounds, I like the idea of them as examples to follow when I create or I listen a background for a player. But anyway, the Counsellor background for Rangers of the North seems wrong to me.

Body 8, Heart 5, Wits 4 and Favoured Riddle. Why so much in body when this background seems to rely on Wits. I think this is an errorr.

Not sure if what you're asking is:
1) why does a Counsellor have more Body than Wits? If that's the question, you've got the answers in the other posts.

or

2) How is it that a Counsellor doesn't have the highest Wits possible for his culture (you might also find that some warrior-type backgrounds don't have the highest Body possible for their culture and the like)?

In this second case, I also wonder why it is so. But most of the time I don't bother a lot with it: my players choose the background they want and change the history behind to their liking. We keep the numbers, but make our own flavour text.

[Otaku-sempai]

I don't really follow completly the backgrounds, I like the idea of them as examples to follow when I create or I listen a background for a player. But anyway, the Counsellor background for Rangers of the North seems wrong to me.

Body 8, Heart 5, Wits 4 and Favoured Riddle. Why so much in body when this background seems to rely on Wits. I think this is an errorr.

Well, if you look, all the Ranger backgrounds either have a Body of 6, 7, or 8, a Heart of 5, 6, or 7, and a Wits of 3, 4, or 5. I can't answer specifically your question regarding why Counsellor has a Body of 8, but I think it may have just been an instance of they needed another Body at 8, and this background got it.

But, Riddle makes sense because it's the skill that "represents a hero’s ability to draw conclusions from seemingly unconnected scraps of information, by deduction, reasoning and intuition".

I see what the OP means. Even given the ranges, it seems as though the Wits should be higher, if only raised to 5, reducing Body to 7. One could also argue that Heart should be higher, giving a final result of Body of 6, Heart of 6, and WIts of 5.

[Glorelendil]

Joe,

If you dig through the archives you'll find endless discussion of this. Noldor and Dunedain are, according to canon, "superior" to other races. Mechanically this is represented as higher attributes and starting skills. But to keep things fun at the table these advantages come with some disadvantages that represent the burden of their role in middle earth's history.

I'm not sure if this makes them "balanced" but it does mean there are different pros and cons to consider.

[JoeArcher]

Joe,

If you dig through the archives you'll find endless discussion of this. Noldor and Dunedain are, according to canon, "superior" to other races. Mechanically this is represented as higher attributes and starting skills. But to keep things fun at the table these advantages come with some disadvantages that represent the burden of their role in middle earth's history.

I'm not sure if this makes them "balanced" but it does mean there are different pros and cons to consider.

Balance is irrelevant, unless the imbalance is truly game breaking. I do like that players never get a feeling of being totally gimped unless they pick a certain combo though. Sounds like those two races were made with some sensible design descisions, so I look forward to reading the books