Minstrelsy

[Hermes Serpent]

Minstrelsy was introduced in the Lake-town supplement/sourcebook as a Trait that could be selected by a Man of the Lake.
"You have been trained in the arts of singing and playing
one or more musical instruments, according to the
tradition of the wandering minstrels. Your musical lore
runs deeper than most, as you partake of the knowledge
of musicians coming from foreign lands."

We've seen it expanded with the Write a Song Undertaking in the Rivendell book which allows a hero to compose a Song plus getting a bonus while in Rivendell or if possessing the Minstrelsy trait.

Is there any canon reason for limiting Minstrelsy to Lakemen or should it be added to the general pool of Traits and Specialities to be chosen when taking the Gain New Distinctive Feature Undertaking?
I can see that having introduced other aspects covered in the Rivendell book (Treasure and the Eye) players may wish to add Songs to their repertoire in their quest for Inspiration (and Fellowship Points).

[buddhax]

I think the important difference is anyone can have Song but not anyone can have Minstrelsy because no all the cultures have the idea of one person who dedicate his life to recollect, compose and play it through the land. I have no doubt Beornings or Dwarves enjoy a good song but they'll never have a minstrel of their own in their towns.

[Hermes Serpent]

You're suggesting that Minstrelsy is only associated with a level of cultural advancement that belongs where the inhabitants have sufficient spare income to indulge in a providing funds for a specific person dedicated to writing and Singing songs.

[Dunkelbrink]

I would definitely add it to the "general list" of traits. Traits aren't hard rules - if a player can motivate why his/her character has that trait, that's fine. There's no canon reason for the Lakemen here, I was even surprised that some of the High Elf backgrounds didn't have the trait though (since it is mentioned in the Song undertaking).

The RAW, when choosing the relevant undertaking dictates: "The new Trait may be chosen from any list of Distinctive Features or Specialities, or even invented by the player (who in this case needs the approval of the Loremaster)." I think that is pretty clear.

[Glorelendil]

I think the key distinction here is that Minstrelsy indicates a study of the musical traditions of other cultures. Elves have astonishing musicians, but they typically aren't very interested in non-Elven music.

I'd leave starting traits as they are, but if a hero wants to add/change later I would allow it.

[buddhax]

You're suggesting that Minstrelsy is only associated with a level of cultural advancement that belongs where the inhabitants have sufficient spare income to indulge in a providing funds for a specific person dedicated to writing and Singing songs.

It's not related to income but yes with culture. Not every culture has the concept of the minstrel, a person dedicated to learn, compose and share music with others, even if every culture has the concept of songs as part of his cultural acerb.

[EPenna]

AFAIK, there's nothing in the Lake-town book or the Minstrelsy trait that indicates that it's a specialty exclusive to Lake-men. Sure, they are the only culture that can start with it, but nothing indicates that Minstrelsy can't be taken as a new trait if a character chooses the Gain New Distinctive Feature or Specialty Fellowship Undertaking.

Even with the cultural excuse, it wouldn't make sense to restrict Minstrelsy to just Lake-men, since Bardings and Lake-men are essentially the same cultural group (think about it: until the Battle of the Five Armies, ALL Bardings were Lake-men), and I find it hard to believe that 100% of those with the Minstrelsy specialty chose to stay in new Lake-town, instead of going with Bard to Dale.

[buddhax]

AFAIK, there's nothing in the Lake-town book or the Minstrelsy trait that indicates that it's a specialty exclusive to Lake-men. Sure, they are the only culture that can start with it, but nothing indicates that Minstrelsy can't be taken as a new trait if a character chooses the Gain New Distinctive Feature or Specialty Fellowship Undertaking.

Even with the cultural excuse, it wouldn't make sense to restrict Minstrelsy to just Lake-men, since Bardings and Lake-men are essentially the same cultural group (think about it: until the Battle of the Five Armies, ALL Bardings were Lake-men), and I find it hard to believe that 100% of those with the Minstrelsy specialty chose to stay in new Lake-town, instead of going with Bard to Dale.

I agree with you, EPenna, about Minstrelsy available for Bardings too. My point is maybe is not available for every culture. It's something completly arguable which cultures could or not have it.

[EPenna]

AFAIK, there's nothing in the Lake-town book or the Minstrelsy trait that indicates that it's a specialty exclusive to Lake-men. Sure, they are the only culture that can start with it, but nothing indicates that Minstrelsy can't be taken as a new trait if a character chooses the Gain New Distinctive Feature or Specialty Fellowship Undertaking.

Even with the cultural excuse, it wouldn't make sense to restrict Minstrelsy to just Lake-men, since Bardings and Lake-men are essentially the same cultural group (think about it: until the Battle of the Five Armies, ALL Bardings were Lake-men), and I find it hard to believe that 100% of those with the Minstrelsy specialty chose to stay in new Lake-town, instead of going with Bard to Dale.

I agree with you, EPenna, about Minstrelsy available for Bardings too. My point is maybe is not available for every culture. It's something completly arguable which cultures could or not have it.

That logic could be applied to any other specialty in the book. The only thing special about Minstrelsy when compared to, say, Mountaineering or Smith-craft or Elven-lore, is that it wasn't published in the core book. As a Loremaster you're free to limit your players' choices when it comes to changing distinctive traits and specialties, but nothing in the Lake-town book or the Minstrelsy trait suggests it's different from any other specialty in this regard.

[buddhax]

That logic could be applied to any other specialty in the book. The only thing special about Minstrelsy when compared to, say, Mountaineering or Smith-craft or Elven-lore, is that it wasn't published in the core book. As a Loremaster you're free to limit your players' choices when it comes to changing distinctive traits and specialties, but nothing in the Lake-town book or the Minstrelsy trait suggests it's different from any other specialty in this regard.

Yes, EPenna. The same way you'll think it twice to allow a hobbit to have Elf-lore or Man of Lake to have Mountaineering or I don't know a Dwarf boating, I think it should be similar with Minstrelsy. I never said not to put it in the list with the rest, just saying I don't think is available by default for every culture because not every culture has the concept of Minstrelsy as not every culture has the concept of Tunneling (I never could translate this to spanish), Mountaineering or any other we can think is restricted to a geographical or cultural development/particularity.