Questions: Studying with Ormal the Lampmaker

[Blubbo Baggins]

I am looking at the new Virtue/Undertaking for Elves of Mirkwood in HotW.
It is a great undertaking, and adds a lot of interest to Elf-Lights. However... it also raises a lot of questions.

If you know the answers or can point to rules that clarify, please reply! If you just have an opinion, please wait to post. I'd like to get an official ruling or as close to possible, if we can.

1) How long does it take to activate the Lights?
Can they be lit in combat?
If so, is it a free action or a full combat action (for the round)?
What about special abilities, like Blazing Elf Lights or Light of the Stars? Is it a free or full action to activate those?

2) If Enemies want to ignore the light and attack you or other companions, must each enemy spend 1 Hate?

3) Blazing Elf Lights: I assume when this effect ends, your Elf-lights have gone out entirely, correct? Or have they simply reverted to regular brightness?

3) Lamp of the Traveler: If you have this ability, it seems all the more likely that re-lighting your Lamp would be a free action - but perhaps it makes no difference.
Can you light or create more than one lamp?

4) Light of the Stars: great ability, but comes with several questions of its own:
1) If you activate this ability in close combat: when your enemies turns come, must they either disengage you to avoid losing 3 Hate, or do they automatically lose 3 Hate because they were already engaged at the beginning of their turns? Of course any new enemies would lose this Hate while the ability is active, but, I'm wondering for enemies that are already engaged.
2) After the ability ends, do your Elf Lights go out, or, do they simply stop burning with Holy Light?
I'm leaning toward the latter. If it is the former, it creates a strange rule situation.
3) Because, if they go out entirely, the RAW state that it costs 1 point of Hope to re-light your lamp (after the Light of the Stars ability has ended), that means that it actually costs 2 Hope to use this ability, which seems quite expensive. Furthermore, if you have Lamp of the Traveler, it creates a rule situation that is self-contradictory. Does it cost 1 Hope to light your lamps with basic light or not? If it does after using Star light, for how long does that one-time penalty apply? For the rest of combat? For the rest of the adventure? Until you light your lamp again? (After which point, I assume it becomes free to re-light it unless you use this ability)

Please clarify if you can, thanks.

[Glorelendil]

Wow. Demanding.

[Blubbo Baggins]

I mean, its fine if people want to put up opinions of course, but, this Virtue does seem to create a lot of gray areas.

Has anyone ever run a game with a PC using this Virtue, especially the new ones from HotW?

[Mytholder]

1) How long does it take to activate the Lights?
Can they be lit in combat?
If so, is it a free action or a full combat action (for the round)?
What about special abilities, like Blazing Elf Lights or Light of the Stars? Is it a free or full action to activate those?

I'd say it's a free action.

2) If Enemies want to ignore the light and attack you or other companions, must each enemy spend 1 Hate?

It depends - are you or your companions between them and the light? If you're in their way, then they can move towards the light and still attack you.

3) Blazing Elf Lights: I assume when this effect ends, your Elf-lights have gone out entirely, correct? Or have they simply reverted to regular brightness?

They go out - it effectively prolongs the flare effect.

3) Lamp of the Traveler: If you have this ability, it seems all the more likely that re-lighting your Lamp would be a free action - but perhaps it makes no difference.
Can you light or create more than one lamp?

I'd only let a character carry one Lamp.

4) Light of the Stars: great ability, but comes with several questions of its own:
1) If you activate this ability in close combat: when your enemies turns come, must they either disengage you to avoid losing 3 Hate, or do they automatically lose 3 Hate because they were already engaged at the beginning of their turns? Of course any new enemies would lose this Hate while the ability is active, but, I'm wondering for enemies that are already engaged.

They can recoil and keep their Hate, or stay fighting you and lose 3 Hate.

2) After the ability ends, do your Elf Lights go out, or, do they simply stop burning with Holy Light?
I'm leaning toward the latter. If it is the former, it creates a strange rule situation.

It goes out. Note that the Light of the Stars specifically refers to your Lamp - you have to use it with a Lamp of the Far Traveller.

3) Because, if they go out entirely, the RAW state that it costs 1 point of Hope to re-light your lamp (after the Light of the Stars ability has ended), that means that it actually costs 2 Hope to use this ability, which seems quite expensive. Furthermore, if you have Lamp of the Traveler, it creates a rule situation that is self-contradictory. Does it cost 1 Hope to light your lamps with basic light or not? If it does after using Star light, for how long does that one-time penalty apply? For the rest of combat? For the rest of the adventure? Until you light your lamp again? (After which point, I assume it becomes free to re-light it unless you use this ability)

The Hope cost refers to relighting a Lamp of the Traveller in the middle of an adventure. Say you use Light of the Stars - after using it, your Lamp of the Traveller goes out. You've got two options
1) Do nothing. You relight your Lamp for free at the start of the next Adventuring Phase, but it's dark for the rest of the current adventure.
2) Pay a point of Hope to relight your Lamp immediately, allowing you to use it again in the current adventure.

Hope that helps.

[Blubbo Baggins]

Thanks Gareth, that helps a lot and makes perfect sense.
(And yes, the Stars ability does refer to the Lamp, I should have noticed).

Oh, that made me think of one question:

For Eye of Mordor rules, I assume lighting your Lamp causes your rating to go up AND each use of a special ability? OR, just each time the Lamp is lit?
If I were to guess, I'd say the rating goes up when the Lamp is lit and when Light of the Stars is used, but, not Enchanted Sleep, or perhaps Blazing Lights, since that effect is more physical (bright light) than magical (holy light). But, that's just a guess. Using the Lights could cause a lot of attention!

[Mytholder]

I can't answer authoritatively on the Eye rules yet - I haven't had to read Rivendell in detail, and I'd be conflating them with memories of much, much earlier drafts if I did. Off the top of my head, I wouldn't increase rating just for lighting a lamp - Gandalf seems happy enough to do his glowing staff routine everywhere - but definitely Blazing Lights and Light of the Stars should draw the Eye.

[Blubbo Baggins]

That makes sense! Thanks again.

[Glorelendil]

I think this ability is going to prove invaluable when heroes start spending more time exploring underground....

[Blubbo Baggins]

Yes invaluable underground . . . or when facing the undead (or Ringwraiths!).

[Seosaidh]

So I just got the Heart of the Wild, and I had some similar questions. Mytholder's answer was rather helpful, but I would like some further clarification on this part:

The Hope cost refers to relighting a Lamp of the Traveller in the middle of an adventure. Say you use Light of the Stars - after using it, your Lamp of the Traveller goes out. You've got two options
1) Do nothing. You relight your Lamp for free at the start of the next Adventuring Phase, but it's dark for the rest of the current adventure.
2) Pay a point of Hope to relight your Lamp immediately, allowing you to use it again in the current adventure.

The rules state:

Lamp of the Far Traveller: You learn the art of making crystal lamps that hold your magical light.
You may start an Adventuring phase lighting such a lamp with your magic at no cost. This lamp works
like a continuous Elf-lights spell, but its glow can be shut out if needed. You can snuff the lamp out to
dazzle foes, or to put someone into an Enchanted Sleep, as per the normal Wood-elf Magic rules. The
lamp then can be lit up again without paying a point of Hope.

The Light of the Stars: Ormal teaches you how to bestow the blessing of Elbereth upon your magic.
By spending a point of Hope, you may cause the light in your Lamp to burn with the pure light of the
stars. This light flares for a limited time (a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom rating) but, while it
burns, creatures of the Enemy cannot engage you in close combat unless they spend 3 Hate Points.
Once the Light of the Stars goes out, your Lamp can be lit up again at the cost of one point of Hope.

I'm still confused about this inconsistency. To clarify, you interpret this to mean that after using the Light of the Stars ability, the Lamp of the Far Traveller can only be re-lit at the cost of 1 Hope for the rest of the Adventure? However, if you only use Blazing Elf-lights, or the regular flare ability from the Core Rules, you can relight the Lamp for free?