Generalized combat effects.

[JoeArcher]

No worries. Forgot this thread myself as I'm slaving away at my WFRP conversion and really busy with training as I have a national championship comming up in two weeks. Converting WFRP a lot of talents give bonuses to skills, so that changes the propabilities a bit. Easy enough to calculate though as it just means the TN is that much lower.

[Glorelendil]

I was thinking about this discussion recently. I was arguing that you can't take hit rates (%'s) by themselves and say they are too high or too low, but other than making an analogy (to World of Warcraft, where hit rates approach 100% but that's not really a problem) I didn't offer a specific way to model it.

I made the point at the time (or maybe it was in another thread...) that with skill 6 your maximum damage in one turn was the same as your maximum damage with skill 2. It just happens more often.

To illustrate this principle more generally, I did a little monte carlo simulation. I modeled 10,000 attacks against various TNs with various skill levels and averaged the damage. (I used weapon damage 5 and Body 5...your mileage will vary depending on weapon type and Body attribute, but the scaling is proportional.)

The damage numbers are vs. TN [10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24].

Skill: 2 Damage: [5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0]
Skill: 3 Damage: [6, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0]
Skill: 4 Damage: [7, 7, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2]
Skill: 5 Damage: [8, 8, 8, 7, 7, 6, 6, 4]
Skill: 6 Damage: [8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 7, 7]

As you can see, with skill 2 your damage rapidly falls off to average zero against high TNs. With skill 6 your damage barely tapers off against higher TNs...but at low TNs it's only a little bit higher than it was at low skill levels.

So your miss rate drops dramatically, but your damage output against proportionally challenging enemies barely changes.

And that's what really matters...not your hit rate but your damage output.

[zedturtle]

I assume you are rounding off in the table above? If you do two decimal places worth of precision there is surely some increase between skill 5 and 6 right?

[Glorelendil]

Yeah I was truncating not rounding. Here it is out to 1 decimal place:

Skill: 2 Damage: [5.0, 4.1, 3.1, 2.1, 1.2, 0.8, 0.6, 0.5]
Skill: 3 Damage: [6.6, 6.1, 5.4, 4.4, 3.3, 2.3, 1.5, 0.9]
Skill: 4 Damage: [7.5, 7.3, 7.1, 6.5, 5.8, 4.7, 3.5, 2.4]
Skill: 5 Damage: [8.2, 8.2, 8.1, 7.8, 7.4, 6.8, 5.8, 4.7]
Skill: 6 Damage: [8.8, 8.8, 8.8, 8.8, 8.6, 8.4, 7.8, 7.0]

[Glorelendil]

Here's a chart:

[zedturtle]

Yeah I was truncating not rounding. Here it is out to 1 decimal place:

Skill: 2 Damage: [5.0, 4.1, 3.1, 2.1, 1.2, 0.8, 0.6, 0.5]
Skill: 3 Damage: [6.6, 6.1, 5.4, 4.4, 3.3, 2.3, 1.5, 0.9]
Skill: 4 Damage: [7.5, 7.3, 7.1, 6.5, 5.8, 4.7, 3.5, 2.4]
Skill: 5 Damage: [8.2, 8.2, 8.1, 7.8, 7.4, 6.8, 5.8, 4.7]
Skill: 6 Damage: [8.8, 8.8, 8.8, 8.8, 8.6, 8.4, 7.8, 7.0]

Rounding 8.8 to 8 instead of 9?

Granted, your point still stands...

[Glorelendil]

OMG reading skills! I said "truncating" (which I shouldn't have been doing...wrote sloppy code).

By way of comparison, here's the chart for miss rates. As you can see, if you only look at whether your hit or miss then the there is a dramatic difference between skill levels. EDIT: Or should I say, it feels like a dramatic difference.

[zedturtle]

OMG reading skills! I said "truncating"

Oops, I can read, I promise! Missed it while skimming on my phone, sorry.

[JoeArcher]

Damage is not the issue, but even then if you add up those numbers over several rounds and players it's significant. Hitting more leads to more piercing blows that hit and kill opponents and players. It's not black and white and really is a matter of preference. I don't like a system where at low level no one hits each other and at high level no one misses each other. I like a system where defense is sn option. I just simply don't agree that it's not a problem

[Glorelendil]

The difference between pierce rates by skill level is much closer than hit rates. Once you've got that 9, 10, or G on the Feat die you don't need many d6's to hit.