Updating with progress as I go along.
Finished:
- career transitions
- character creation
- Rules for wfrp talents and skills
- combat additions
- Dice mechanics updated to take into account bonuses from talents and career special abilities.
- races
- ALL careers done (Example career page: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/182 ... xample.pdf)
- Rules for magic done
- Talents done
- Healing rules and critical wounds done (Inspired by rules posted by Rich H. to keep it nice and simple)
- Rules for disease, fear/terror, insanity and mutation done
- weapons completely updated with special qualities etc.
- Armor done since it's identical to rules in TOR
- Skills all done
- Character sheet https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/182 ... 0sheet.pdf
- NPC cards: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/182 ... 0cards.pdf
I still need:
- Magic spells and ritual magic
- Chaotic manifestation tables and wrath of gods from 2nd, with some effects from 3rd
- Convert 3rd edition mutations for use with TOH (The One Hammer)
- Convert 2nd and 3rd edition diseases.
- Convert 2nd and 3rd edition insanities
- Rules for herbalism and experimenting
If I have left anything out from my list, please let me know.
WFRP conversion
WFRP conversion
Last edited by JoeArcher on Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:42 pm, edited 21 times in total.
Re: WFRP conversion
Having a lot of experience with 2nd edition WFRP myself, I'd be tempted to create a simplified version of Tzeentch's Curse. There would only be twelve entries, each corresponding to a result on the Feat die. Each result would trigger regardless of success or failure on the casting roll.
Only the Gandalf Rune (or Sigmar's Hammer or whatever you'd call it in Warhammer) would result in 'no effect.' Rolling a 6-10 would trigger minor effects; consequences that would only be expressed through roleplaying. These would be the "milk curdles" or "the room gets chilly" and similar results from the original Tzeentch's Curse table. 1-5 would be pretty bad, resulting in temporary Shadow points and perhaps even an immediate Bout of Madness.
Rolling the Eye (or eight-pointed star of Chaos, I suppose) . . . well that depends on how Warhammery you want to be. This could easily be "Pass a Corruption immediately or a Chaos Daemon enter reality from the Warp and eats you. Try to do better next time." If you want to tone things down, however--a lot of people seem to think WFRP overdoes the "you suck and then you die" mentality--I'd go with a permanent Shadow point instead.
If you want to bring it down a notch overall, you could have Tzeentch's Curse trigger only on a roll of the Eye/Star. Then have a second table that you roll on with the Feat die or 3d6 (depending on the number of results you want). If you go this route, an interesting mechanic might be to increase the range at which Tzeentch's Curse is triggered. First casting only happens on the Eye/Star. After a few more castings it can happen on a 1 as well, then a 2, etc. Should a player really start to abuse it, that's when any result but Gandalf/Sigmar causes Tzeentch's Curse. You could even require the player to roll the Feat die twice and take the worst result; or add/subtract a d6 when rolling on the table (depending on if the worse results or high or low on the list), if you go that route.
The Dark Magic talent would allow you to roll two Feat dice, picking the best one (or adding both numerical values to the total) when making a casting roll. But both Feat dice count toward triggering Tzeentch's Curse.
I don't know how much you've changed the base rules for your conversion, but I'd make each Lore a separate Virtue. Each additional spell in that Lore costs 1xp. This keeps things consistent with TOR in its original incarnation, which I like. Without seeing your skill list, and assuming you plan to kept the symmetry of TOR--three attributes, each with six derived skills--I wouldn't want to mess this up; so I'd assign each Lore a different skill to roll for casting tests. For example, casting tests for the druid-like lore (I can't remember the name, because my players chose the Lore of Fire every time they played a wizard, the jerks), would require Travel or Hunting.
That's the most loyal conversion from 2nd edition, at least that I can think of off the top of my head.
Only the Gandalf Rune (or Sigmar's Hammer or whatever you'd call it in Warhammer) would result in 'no effect.' Rolling a 6-10 would trigger minor effects; consequences that would only be expressed through roleplaying. These would be the "milk curdles" or "the room gets chilly" and similar results from the original Tzeentch's Curse table. 1-5 would be pretty bad, resulting in temporary Shadow points and perhaps even an immediate Bout of Madness.
Rolling the Eye (or eight-pointed star of Chaos, I suppose) . . . well that depends on how Warhammery you want to be. This could easily be "Pass a Corruption immediately or a Chaos Daemon enter reality from the Warp and eats you. Try to do better next time." If you want to tone things down, however--a lot of people seem to think WFRP overdoes the "you suck and then you die" mentality--I'd go with a permanent Shadow point instead.
If you want to bring it down a notch overall, you could have Tzeentch's Curse trigger only on a roll of the Eye/Star. Then have a second table that you roll on with the Feat die or 3d6 (depending on the number of results you want). If you go this route, an interesting mechanic might be to increase the range at which Tzeentch's Curse is triggered. First casting only happens on the Eye/Star. After a few more castings it can happen on a 1 as well, then a 2, etc. Should a player really start to abuse it, that's when any result but Gandalf/Sigmar causes Tzeentch's Curse. You could even require the player to roll the Feat die twice and take the worst result; or add/subtract a d6 when rolling on the table (depending on if the worse results or high or low on the list), if you go that route.
The Dark Magic talent would allow you to roll two Feat dice, picking the best one (or adding both numerical values to the total) when making a casting roll. But both Feat dice count toward triggering Tzeentch's Curse.
I don't know how much you've changed the base rules for your conversion, but I'd make each Lore a separate Virtue. Each additional spell in that Lore costs 1xp. This keeps things consistent with TOR in its original incarnation, which I like. Without seeing your skill list, and assuming you plan to kept the symmetry of TOR--three attributes, each with six derived skills--I wouldn't want to mess this up; so I'd assign each Lore a different skill to roll for casting tests. For example, casting tests for the druid-like lore (I can't remember the name, because my players chose the Lore of Fire every time they played a wizard, the jerks), would require Travel or Hunting.
That's the most loyal conversion from 2nd edition, at least that I can think of off the top of my head.
Re: WFRP conversion
Just chiming in to say that I'm interested in your work.
Old time WFRP master here, and always interested in alternative systems (never cared so much for the native mechanic).
I got some ideas of my own about a TOR-WFRP hack, but never got around converting the careers
Old time WFRP master here, and always interested in alternative systems (never cared so much for the native mechanic).
I got some ideas of my own about a TOR-WFRP hack, but never got around converting the careers
Re: WFRP conversion
It will take a bit of time, but it's progressing at a decent pace. But I'll do the complete system, because I think this could be the definitive wfrp system for us. 
Don't think I can release it in it's current form though, because for careers I use the actual pictures from my 2nd edition pdf and games workshop may get slightly grumpy. I can of course do one without the picture etc.
Don't think I can release it in it's current form though, because for careers I use the actual pictures from my 2nd edition pdf and games workshop may get slightly grumpy. I can of course do one without the picture etc.
Re: WFRP conversion
It'll be interesting to see how you do the careers Joe. You mention 105 still to be done. Personally speaking, I wouldn't be bothered with that. TOR has no randomness about character creation. Your character is derived from the choices you make. I would just stick to providing archetypes that players want rather than a hundred plus random careers which may not ever be used. I would apply the Stat arrays appropriately for Elves, Dwarves and Halflings giving them six options each. There are three sets of 6 Human Culture stat arrays. I would use six of these for non Empire humans and twelve for Empire archetypal options(3 each of Warriors, Rangers, Rogues and Academics)
Non Empire Archetypes would be Estalian Diestro, Kislev Kossar, Tilean Mercenary, Marienburger Marine, Border Princes Outlaw and Norscan Berserker.
Just my tuppence worth on taking a bit of the work out of a great conversion idea.
Non Empire Archetypes would be Estalian Diestro, Kislev Kossar, Tilean Mercenary, Marienburger Marine, Border Princes Outlaw and Norscan Berserker.
Just my tuppence worth on taking a bit of the work out of a great conversion idea.
Re: WFRP conversion
The way I have done it is that each career has access to:
Specific common skills
Weapon skills
Distinctive features (you can change, reflecting how your jobs influence your personality)
WFRP skills (using common skills as stats for making checks)
WFRP talents
A few careers have a special ability on top of that
The above works like the advancement scheme. You need to buy a certain number of options to finish the career and can only buy each option once.
For us the careers are very much the foundation of character advancement in wfrp, and it wouldn't feel right without. I'll do the work, and it's not really that hard, because i copy much of it directly from the 2nd ed pdf, just adding the TOR stuff.
The harder work is translating the skills and talents to convert them to TOR mechanics. And after that magic and spells.
I also changed the way you read the dice to get propabilities a bit closer to wfrp standards. Still higher than regular 2nd edition, but still lower chance of success than TOR RAW. It will work very well, because then all the skills and talents giving bonuses to different activities, plus rewards and virtue will not unbalance the system, but rather the new propabilities are based on players getting said bonuses without propabilities going through the roof and ruining the tactical options that used to be fun at lower levels.
If something is worth doing, then it's worth doing it right
Specific common skills
Weapon skills
Distinctive features (you can change, reflecting how your jobs influence your personality)
WFRP skills (using common skills as stats for making checks)
WFRP talents
A few careers have a special ability on top of that
The above works like the advancement scheme. You need to buy a certain number of options to finish the career and can only buy each option once.
For us the careers are very much the foundation of character advancement in wfrp, and it wouldn't feel right without. I'll do the work, and it's not really that hard, because i copy much of it directly from the 2nd ed pdf, just adding the TOR stuff.
The harder work is translating the skills and talents to convert them to TOR mechanics. And after that magic and spells.
I also changed the way you read the dice to get propabilities a bit closer to wfrp standards. Still higher than regular 2nd edition, but still lower chance of success than TOR RAW. It will work very well, because then all the skills and talents giving bonuses to different activities, plus rewards and virtue will not unbalance the system, but rather the new propabilities are based on players getting said bonuses without propabilities going through the roof and ruining the tactical options that used to be fun at lower levels.
If something is worth doing, then it's worth doing it right
Re: WFRP conversion
This dice mechanic will be included to give success chances that are much more balanced even at skill rank 6:
With outlined numbers (1-3) counting as zero normally and subtracted when weary.
TN14 - sauron 0 instead of failure [Weary]
1 = 16.67% [16.67%]
2 = 31.25% [24.77%]
3 = 47.72% [35.34%]
4 = 62.64% [43.77%]
5 = 74.52% [49.72%]
6 = 83.24% [55.92%]
Much better distribution. This is spot on for me. When Sauron is set at 0 instead of automatic failure, it allows for more narrative possibilities of having success with complications. Plus having the eye as automatic failure gives some serious issues in terms of the value of having bonuses from traits, virtues and rewards, because of the constant 1/12th chance of failure on the feat die, that caps such bonuses at higher level to become pointless. Such a simple solution to the issues with high skill level propability. And the nice thing is that it scales really well as the TN rises. The propability of success at TN 20 with 6d skill is only 56.39%. Then you have to add various bonuses rerolls etc. But still it's much better than the RAW where a skill 6 would have 89% chance at TN 20 and 99% chance at TN 14. That's only a difference of 10, whereas the difference with this system is 27. A huge difference in terms of making the propabilities scale well and balance your games. Give that troll just +1 or +2 parry and the players WILL feel the difference, instead of having to give it +10 parry to make a difference. With this system TN 14 for someone with skill 6 is quite easy while TN 20 is close to a 50-50 chance. Much better than TN 14 being pointless and TN 20 being very easy.
With outlined numbers (1-3) counting as zero normally and subtracted when weary.
TN14 - sauron 0 instead of failure [Weary]
1 = 16.67% [16.67%]
2 = 31.25% [24.77%]
3 = 47.72% [35.34%]
4 = 62.64% [43.77%]
5 = 74.52% [49.72%]
6 = 83.24% [55.92%]
Much better distribution. This is spot on for me. When Sauron is set at 0 instead of automatic failure, it allows for more narrative possibilities of having success with complications. Plus having the eye as automatic failure gives some serious issues in terms of the value of having bonuses from traits, virtues and rewards, because of the constant 1/12th chance of failure on the feat die, that caps such bonuses at higher level to become pointless. Such a simple solution to the issues with high skill level propability. And the nice thing is that it scales really well as the TN rises. The propability of success at TN 20 with 6d skill is only 56.39%. Then you have to add various bonuses rerolls etc. But still it's much better than the RAW where a skill 6 would have 89% chance at TN 20 and 99% chance at TN 14. That's only a difference of 10, whereas the difference with this system is 27. A huge difference in terms of making the propabilities scale well and balance your games. Give that troll just +1 or +2 parry and the players WILL feel the difference, instead of having to give it +10 parry to make a difference. With this system TN 14 for someone with skill 6 is quite easy while TN 20 is close to a 50-50 chance. Much better than TN 14 being pointless and TN 20 being very easy.
Re: WFRP conversion
Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly, but in TOR a Sauron is a zero, not an automatic failure
Re: WFRP conversion
I understand the confusionCorvo wrote:Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly, but in TOR a Sauron is a zero, not an automatic failure
I have tried calculating with automatic failure and I think some groups play with that rule
This is just the final method of using the dice, that I'm happy with in terms of playability from skill rank 1-6.
Re: WFRP conversion
Just a progress update. 30 careers done
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