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Mmmm....I'd be opposed to re-spec, personally. In the games I've been playing in the virtues/rewards are very much a part of the character's story. Being able to swap them around at will makes the character...in the abstract sense of the word, not the stats written on the sheet...too malleable and impermanent.

Just think how much hand-wringing there has been over the Glorfindel paradox. One little anomaly in Tolkien's works and immersion is imperiled.

Glorelendil wrote:Mmmm....I'd be opposed to re-spec, personally. In the games I've been playing in the virtues/rewards are very much a part of the character's story.

So are Traits and Distinctive Features. What, you were Cautious and now you're Bold? Wait, you've been a Boater all your life and now you've become a Gardener?
And this is by the RAW. With enough justification and roleplaying, I say "why not?".

Stormcrow wrote:Do you really need new rules for that? Trade in your Grievous sword for a Fell Axe. Forget those old Broken Spells, but befriend a Raven of the Mountain.

But no backsies. You can't just create new loadouts for every quest.

Why it needs rules? You said that yourself: no backsies. You can do it, but it shouldn't be free (as I said, maybe and Undertaking AND Experience expenditure). I personally like the idea of characters being dynamic throughout all their adventuring life, and if it has been done for Traits and Features, it sounds quite natural also for Virtues and Rewards.

Michebugio wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:Mmmm....I'd be opposed to re-spec, personally. In the games I've been playing in the virtues/rewards are very much a part of the character's story.

So are Traits and Distinctive Features. What, you were Cautious and now you're Bold? Wait, you've been a Boater all your life and now you've become a Gardner?
And this is by the RAW.

Certainly there's some similarity there, but Traits are not nearly as powerful as Virtues/Rewards. Also, I see changing traits a little differently: it's not that you forget how to handle boats and suddenly become a master gardener, it's that Gardener has become more prominent than your boating skill, such that you can use it for autosuccesses and the like.

I used to be fanatically into rowing. Then, years later, I got even more psychotically into climbing. I would argue that I lost my ability to "invoke" my identity as a rower...god knows I couldn't pull erg scores like I used to...but instead I could invoke all sorts of climbing ability & lore. Lots and lots of lore. Much of which, now that I haven't been a climber for 10 years, I've forgotten.

(New trait: Proud Papa)

It's hard (at least I find it so) to rewrite Virtues and Rewards the same way. "Well, your Axe was keen, but you blunted it on a rock and the resulting jagged edge is now Grievous instead..." Or, "You know how to make Honey Cakes, but you're sick of baking so you refuse to. Turns out that all along you knew how to travel as a Spirit Bear at night, but haven't been bothering to use it..."

With enough justification and roleplaying, I say "why not?".

Yeah, it's that word "justification" that turns me off to the idea. God knows I'm a powergamin' munchkin, so I know it when I see it.

That said, I'm not saying other people shouldn't do what makes them happy, just that my vote would be for not making this kind of retconning official. Leave it to the LM and the player.

Glorelendil wrote:Certainly there's some similarity there, but Traits are not nearly as powerful as Virtues/Rewards. Also, I see changing traits a little differently: it's not that you forget how to handle boats and suddenly become a master gardener, it's that Gardener has become more prominent than your boating skill, such that you can use it for autosuccesses and the like.

If boating was Deadly Archers and gardener was Elven Magic, your phrase would sound like: "it's not that you forget how to handle bows and suddenly become a master wizard, it's that magic has become more prominent than your archery skill, such that you can use it for casting spells and the like."

It still sounds right to me, doesn't it?

Michebugio wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:Certainly there's some similarity there, but Traits are not nearly as powerful as Virtues/Rewards. Also, I see changing traits a little differently: it's not that you forget how to handle boats and suddenly become a master gardener, it's that Gardener has become more prominent than your boating skill, such that you can use it for autosuccesses and the like.

If boating was Deadly Archers and gardener was Elven Magic, your phrase would sound like: "it's not that you forget how to handle bows and suddenly become a master wizard, it's that magic has become more prominent than your archery skill, such that you can use it for casting spells and the like."

It still sounds right to me, doesn't it?

Not for me, it doesn't. I can see it justifying the switch, but it sounds like exactly that. Your mileage may vary.

Although, to be honest, it also sounds like justification when applied to the traits, but again I think the game impact is less. An autosuccess doesn't let you do something you couldn't otherwise do*, after all the dice might have landed in your favor. But you either know how to cast a spell or you don't.

*EDIT: And, yes, traits let you sometimes roll for things the LM wasn't going to allow, but that's still at the LM's discretion and probably doesn't apply to impossible things, just very hard things, and still requires the use of common skills. I.e., things you "know how to do."

Michebugio wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:Certainly there's some similarity there, but Traits are not nearly as powerful as Virtues/Rewards. Also, I see changing traits a little differently: it's not that you forget how to handle boats and suddenly become a master gardener, it's that Gardener has become more prominent than your boating skill, such that you can use it for autosuccesses and the like.

"it's not that you forget how to handle bows and suddenly become a master wizard, it's that magic has become more prominent than your archery skill, such that you can use it for casting spells and the like."

"It's not that you forget how to cast spells and suddenly become a master archer; it's that archery has become more prominent than your spellcasting skill, such that you can use it for trick shots and the like."

"Hey, Elf! Remember when you lured those orcs toward us with those fairy lights? Do it again!" "Um... I just don't do that anymore."

Doesn't work.

Stormcrow wrote:"Hey, Elf! Remember when you lured those orcs toward us with those fairy lights? Do it again!" "Um... I just don't do that anymore."

"Hey, Barding! Remember when you made us cross that river safely? Do it again!" "Um... I'm a gardener now, I just don't do that anymore."

And so on...

Yeah, while I understand the arguement (and am sympathetic, especially for Rewards), at some point we have to acknowledge that a key component of a game is making interesting and difficult choices. Allowing something like this might short circuit a lot of decisions, since they will no longer be possessed of the same weight.

I'm sure all of us lament that we will only get so much TOR gaming accomplished in life, and never get a chance to explore every corner and every option. Tis the way of life, however.

EDIT: "I can try, but it's been a long time..."

Michebugio wrote:

Stormcrow wrote:"Hey, Elf! Remember when you lured those orcs toward us with those fairy lights? Do it again!" "Um... I just don't do that anymore."

"Hey, Barding! Remember when you made us cross that river safely? Do it again!" "Um... I'm a gardener now, I just don't do that anymore."

And so on...

Except he can still try to do so. The only difference is that he has to roll dice, rather than claim an autosuccess.

So the Barding's response would be, "Sure...but I'm a little bit rusty..."

My speculations for Adventurer's Companion? Let's see...

Plenty of cultures, but that has been confirmed. Not sure if there will be more weapons and armour, even though that's my hope. I would for instance love to see more advanced armour for the People of Gondor (Knights of Dol Amroth etc).

My hope is that the book will include more options for characters, both in and out of combat. Maybe the something like Combat Tasks but for Encounters and Travel situations? That would be interesting, since Combat, Travel and Encounters are the TORs bread and butter, so to speak.

Of course, I would hope to see some official rules for stuff like dual wielding and such. Even though it's not very Tolkieny or historical, shouldn't make it impossible. I really don't like rpgs systems that says "No, that's impossible!" rather than "It's possible, but hard to pull off.".

But the one thing I'm mostly looking forward to is the expanded generation rules.

But here is a question: will this book come out before the Rohan book or after? If it comes out after, and the Rohan culture is in the Adventure Companion, then how will that work?

-Eirik