Struggling

[Stilts]

And to think that all this time I've been using the phrase "ninja hobbit assassin" facetiously to represent all the things TOR is not.

This thread is making me sad.

Agreed.

[JoeArcher]

In my group there is this one Hobbit with ridiculous amount of luck and a high stealth score. So he has decided to become an assassin for this mafioso guy living in Esgaroth, who offered him this position in reward for this crazy short sword. So now I have a Hobbit who has to kill 11 people (some of them are bad guys, but mostly not But since then, he knows the price for the sword and is willing to accumulate shadow points.

But I gues my group is a bit weird in this perspective. The one guy stole the sword of the other one, so other burnt his holding down. Then we had two cases of torture (the torturer has already succumbed to the shadow ) now.

So, we aren't into the black and white stuff, too. I like to do evil things with my NPCs, they like to do evil things by themselves. They get shadow points, but they want to play their heros authentically.

And to think that all this time I've been using the phrase "ninja hobbit assassin" facetiously to represent all the things TOR is not.

This thread is making me sad.

Why? Because someone has the audacity to play like that or because he's writing about it here?

I wouldn't enjoy it, but guess they're having fun murdering in middle earth

[zedturtle]

Yeah, my only response is YMEMV. (Your Middle Earth May Vary)

To each, their own.

- - - - -

I guess I should explain myself, since I never completed my thought in the other thread where this was relevant. I kind of approach this stuff like I approach the concept of Free Speech: it isn't there to protect the stuff you like, it's there to protect the stuff you hate (or at least dislike). I will always tell folks that they can play whatever kind of game makes them happy; that isn't me endorsing a particular game-style, it's just me saying that I don't have any say in the matter.

[Glorelendil]

I don't think it requires much audacity to play TOR as if it were D&D.

Freedom of Speech is a good example. I have no desire to dictate what other people do with that freedom, but their choices sometimes make me sad.

[Seosaidh]

I guess I should explain myself, since I never completed my thought in the other thread where this was relevant. I kind of approach this stuff like I approach the concept of Free Speech: it isn't there to protect the stuff you like, it's there to protect the stuff you hate (or at least dislike). I will always tell folks that they can play whatever kind of game makes them happy; that isn't me endorsing a particular game-style, it's just me saying that I don't have any say in the matter.

I like this example. But also remember that Free Speech still has consequences. I have the freedom to make many racist/hateful remarks, but if I do that in a very public way, it's going to have negative repercussions on my life/career. There are numerous examples of this in real life. In-game, you can say that a character is free to do xyz, but as per the RAW, they will receive Shadow points and eventually lose their character.

The more important issue is: Are you having fun with the type of game being played? If you enjoy playing evil people, doing bad things etc. in TOR, then you are free to do that, but if you aren't having fun, then something needs to change, since this is a game and is meant to be fun. But you and your players must be on the same page, and agree on what is/is not acceptable in this game, otherwise people won't have fun.

[JoeArcher]

I don't think it requires much audacity to play TOR as if it were D&D.

Freedom of Speech is a good example. I have no desire to dictate what other people do with that freedom, but their choices sometimes make me sad.

I can agree with that

[Fridokind Wargaug]

To make it clear, murdering is not all my group does (they would be crazy by now with shadow points). It happened, because they put their personal interests above the common good (like forcing the doctor of Hilltown, to heal one of the heros). They also murdered, beacause oftentimes I don´t make it clear, who is evil and who is good, probably because most humans are neither 100% good or bad. The situation in Hilltown was something like that: They saw the peasants of Hilltown being surpressed by its lord, while the merchants and craftmen were doing fine. They have been to Hilltown before and backthen there was no conflict between aristocracy and peasants, so they were wondering, what is going on here? The Hobbit wanted to inspect the new tower that had been built in their absence and sneaked in to figure out that question. He was cought and imprisoned. To free him, the others planned a diversionary tactic to free him: starting a riot. This went horribly wrong (so actually the dice are evil), ending in the entire destruction of the city by its peasants. Having created this chaos, the heros wanted to at least gain advantage of the situation. So basically, they wanted to do something good, but in the end, their greed overwhelmed which I believe is a realistic scenario for a starter group of adventurers.

Normally, we play the adventures from ToW, the butchering thing was like an completely improvised session on my behalf (I wanted them to go hunting with the lord of Hilltown in Rhosgobel (Words of the Wise)), but a part of the group stayed there to "investigate". So don´t get me wrong, we are not super evil creatures, destroying the spirit of Tolkien everytime we play (well, maybe I am, since I came up with a woodmen lord who surpresses his peasants), but they are neither the super pure hearted demi gods like Aragorn whoes gratest flaw was to make his father in law unhappy by falling in love with his daughter. Realistically, not every hero can be that good, for not every hero was destined to be king.

[Hermes Serpent]

Personally I don't see a feudal society much in evidence in most of Tolkien's work except maybe Gondor. I'd suggest that a society of chiefs noted as doing good and brave deeds to support their extended family/tribe might be a better example. I'd suggest that a reading of suitable material might give you more background to better use thios style rather than an anachronistic feudal lord oppressing peasants.

Try Morris's House of the Wolfings, a known inspiration for Tolkien, or many of the translations of the Icelandic sagas either in modern translation or one of the earlier versions. Most of these are free to download from various sites. Viking society (for purposes of informing play) is close enough to A-S society or Gothic society to help you out.

[Fridokind Wargaug]

I think it is in TfW, where it said, that different from the other houses, Mountain Hall had a lord-kind of thing. I built Hilltown similar to Mountain Hall (just smaller, but it is also in the Misty Mountains). So there was a lord and because he was influenced by evil people (like Grima with Theoden), he became kind of evil himself.

But I think we have quite distanced ourselves from the original topic. My point was basically, make your heros clear, that doing misdeeds, increases their shadow rating. If they won´t stop, let them continue. They will probably stop, after the first adventurer succumbs to the shadow.

[Hermes Serpent]

Nope, just checked Tales and Hartfast is no different from any other chief of a Woodman clan in terms of his care for the clan first and it's members/. Check his response to the characters after the attack. Everything he says or does is directly a result of the heroes response to the attack, He's a typical Anglo-Saxon style clan chief, gift-giver to his clansmen and protector of the members of that clan, nothing feudal about him at all.