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Rocmistro wrote:It's pretty sad when the Dwarf is the moral compass of the party

No, it made perfect sense. It was complex ethical logic, and the dwarf saw it as a black & white thing.

I'm reminded of an interview with Jimmy Carter's mother, soon after he was elected president. The reporter asked her if it was true that her son never told a lie. She said, "Well, he told white lies." The reporter jumped all over this. "What do you mean? What's a 'white lie'?" She smiled. "Remember when you arrived, and I said how nice it was to see you? That was a white lie."

Ethics are tricky.

In the books, the hillmen who fought for Saruman were spared after the battle of the Hornburg. They were amazed, for they expected what has been refered to as 'justice' above.

I am reminded of Faramir's men beating up Gollum at Henneth Annûn. When the villain is sprawling on the floor, kick him in the face. One guy locking the villain's arms, the other punching the villain in the guts. Noble Faramir saying nothing; presumably, sometimes that's what it takes -- in the movies. I'm sure that some changes were necessary for the movies to appeal to the mass market. For my part though I much prefer the books, where a scene like that is unthinkable.

I agree with Cawdorthane that how you imagine that Tolkien would have written the scene is a good guide. Obviously this is up to the reader's imagination though. So maybe have a look at how DoM itself is written as well. It is clear that Mogdred's men are not orcs and not beyond hope. Unless the PCs are too quick to exact 'justice', the servants of Tyrant's Hill may become much less of a threat. Because this is Tolkien's world, not the Dark Ages.

Elfcrusher wrote: Ok ok ok....but we were going to do it ONLY to teach them a lesson, and we promised to donate the money to an orphanage. Plus we knew that Viglund would have probably freed them within a few weeks.

Probably

Irony carries moral weight.

But maybe only for French philosophers.

Elfcrusher wrote:Irony carries moral weight.

But maybe only for French philosophers.

Probably

Aeglosdir wrote:Noble Faramir saying nothing; presumably, sometimes that's what it takes -- in the movies.

Daddy-issue Faramir of the films and incorruptible Faramir of the book: the two characters are almost nothing alike. Movie-Faramir had obviously been racking up the Shadow points for some time.

Stormcrow wrote:Daddy-issue Faramir of the films and incorruptible Faramir of the book: the two characters are almost nothing alike.

Precisely.

I should stop posting one-adverb posts.

Probably.

Stormcrow wrote: Movie-Faramir had obviously been racking up the Shadow points for some time.

Got to agree there, Stormcrow.

BACK TO THE PLOT:
After the Battle of 5 Armies 'Chapter 18 The Return Journey', even JRRT himself wrote (I just love the start of this line) "Then dismay fell on the Goblins and they fled in all directions. But weariness left their enemies with the coming of new hope, and they pursued them closely, and prevented most of them from escaping where they could."

He continues to have the broken survivors of the battle hunted into the marshes to perish, or slain by elven hunters in Mirkwood or just to die "in the trackless dark of Mirkwood". How many Shadow points are going to be distributed here? I think .....None - if Tolkien thought the action evil then there would have been a negative consequence. AND let's not forget that he read this story aloud to his children too.

IMHO the professor has sanctioned a response that was mirrored by the actions of the fellowship towards treacherous and deceptive adversaries.

Well?

However, in the Battle of 5 Armies, there are no evil men. Orcs are generally considered to be beyond redemption (at least as far as is humanly/elvishly possible). Men (and Gollum) are not.

Seosaidh wrote:However, in the Battle of 5 Armies, there are no evil men. Orcs are generally considered to be beyond redemption (at least as far as is humanly/elvishly possible). Men (and Gollum) are not.

Tolwen incoming.

Cheers.