Giving Shadow Points for...

[Amargen]

taking a prisoner involves a lot more than simply the idea that you're willing: someone needs to restrain them, see to their wounds, provide food/water, guard them, find a place for them. having several minutes or an hour between waves in a battle, especially if it's one where you're desperately outnumbered (what other kind is there in TOR? doesn't mean you have the capability to do that. leaving them be seems to be the best option, but as was pointed out someone shamming death/wounds and stabbing you in the back isn't any fun...

[Angelalex242]

Hey, War's not fun.

The shadow points you get for killing the prisoner you don't have time or resources to deal with is 'PTSD' in real life. There's a reason many of these RL vets end up on the streets with cardboard boxes saying 'homeless hungry need help'. They've suffered one bout of madness too many.

Essentially, the same thing happens to characters who get put in one no win situation too many. With that theory in mind, the shadow points just simulate the horror of war and the terrible effect it has on your mind and soul. If you haven't got the wisdom score to handle the heat, you might be wisest to stay out of the fire of war.

[Deadmanwalking]

Hey, War's not fun.

The shadow points you get for killing the prisoner you don't have time or resources to deal with is 'PTSD' in real life. There's a reason many of these RL vets end up on the streets with cardboard boxes saying 'homeless hungry need help'. They've suffered one bout of madness too many.

Essentially, the same thing happens to characters who get put in one no win situation too many. With that theory in mind, the shadow points just simulate the horror of war and the terrible effect it has on your mind and soul. If you haven't got the wisdom score to handle the heat, you might be wisest to stay out of the fire of war.

There's certainly an element of truth here, but Misdeeds automatically give Shadow. No amount of Wisdom can ever prevent it. Additionally, well, just look at the name, Misdeeds are things that the world of the game deems morally wrong, not merely unpleasant (unpleasantness can certainly cause Shadow, but it's not a Misdeed).

Being in any really large battle should indeed likely cause at least a Wisdom check to avoid Shadow...but the question is under what circumstances is killing foes morally wrong, and thus a Misdeed (and automatic Shadow). Killing prisoners generally qualifies.

[Angelalex242]

Hmmm. Misdeeds in war would basically be a war crime. War crimes...are pretty rare, I'd think.

[Amargen]

Not IRL... the vast majority in WW2 were never reported by any side. matter of fact, for the most part the U.S. and German soldiers just shrugged and said "these things happen in battle".

I do agree that I was missing the majority of the point and thinking about excusing the circumstances

[Deadmanwalking]

Hmmm. Misdeeds in war would basically be a war crime. War crimes...are pretty rare, I'd think.

They're really not. What's rare is them being done methodically under orders...but individuals going off the rails and doing awful things? That happens in every war.

Killing prisoners of war out of hand would definitely be an example of such a thing, too. Shooting people who are fleeing probably wouldn't, though. Of course, that's by prevailing standards in the real world, not necessarily those that should be used in TOR.

[Angelalex242]

Well, I dunno. The Geneva Convention is a pretty good place to start for what qualifies as a wartime misdeed.

Of course, those limits may be stretched when fighting armies of orcs, but...

[damiller]

I recently "gave" my player around 9 shadow points. I say gave, but really he chose them. I told him ahead of time that what his character was about to do would get him shadow points, and he hesitated, but took them.

In one instance he tortured an enemy to get information, in another he murdered a foe in his sleep.

We bantered a bit back and forth about the SP cost of the "murdering a servant of the shadow" in his sleep. I dropped it by one.

The next time I just told him how much the act would get him.

I am no longer a fan of "debating" whether or not something is worthy of Shadow Points, rather I let my players decide if they want to do the act and I tell them if it will gain them Shadow or not. Because they have the advantage (in the game) we do not have in real life: clear choices.

d

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, I dunno. The Geneva Convention is a pretty good place to start for what qualifies as a wartime misdeed.

Of course, those limits may be stretched when fighting armies of orcs, but...

It's certainly a good starting point...but killing Gollum wouldn't have been against the Geneva Convention, so other standards are clearly also in play.

[Amargen]

I don't think the king of Gondor had the Geneva convention ratified lol