Mechanic Idea for Degradation

[Stilts]

Hey folks, I wanted to get everyone's input on this idea I had about weapons and armour degrading over time, with the opportunity to repair them of course. I drafted a brief document about it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpntebug8u8cy ... n.pdf?dl=0

This isn't adding rules just for the sake of it, though. There's a specific purpose for this idea, and it's to improve general gameplay through the following means:

Most players rely on a single weapon. This mechanic encourages players to carry more than one weapon when their primary ones are degraded, or even save their stronger weapons for when they need them most.

Some players feel there's not enough variety for Undertakings. Repairing degraded gear would likely be on par with removing corruption.

Most players never carry armour heavier than a mail shirt. This mechanic encourages bulkier armours, since they are more likely to degrade enemy weapons and any Protection penalties they suffer due to degradation would be more negligible.

Players would be more likely to choose a wider range of tactics during combat, such as switching weapons, removing a helm when it becomes degraded, shouldering a splintered shield to switch to two-handed, or changing from rearward stance to a close combat stance (and vice versa).

Famous Weapons and Armour with Enchanted Qualities feel even more magical since they are immune to degradation.

Also, the Thick Hide special ability would be changed to the following: When the creature succeeds in a Protection test against a close combat weapon, obtaining a great success, the attacker's weapon is degraded by one. If the creature obtains an extraordinary success, the weapon is degraded by two.

Let me know what you all think!

[Glorelendil]

I developed a system for this as well, although my reason for doing so is that I was working on a port of TOR mechanics to a game based on the Conan world. In the original Conan stories he has a new weapon in every story, and broken/lost/discarded weapons is a recurring theme. So I wanted to encourage heroes in such a world to do the same thing, and not get attached to their weapons. (There would be no magical weapons or plot-proof items at all.)

Here's the excerpt from what I wrote:

Quality & Condition

Weapons and armor are tools, and even the best tools eventually break, are lost, or simply wear out from use.

War gear in Hyboria has two additional ratings: Quality and Condition. Quality is a fixed value from 1 to 6 and is a measure of both the materials used in the weapon and the skill with which it was crafted:
Junk: this weapon is crudely made, and shows no signs of craft.
Inferior: perhaps made by an apprentice, or mass-produced for new recruits.
Normal: perfectly serviceable weapon made from decent materials.
Fine: a skilled smith took time and care crafting this weapon.
Exceptional: a king would commission such a weapon for his personal use.
Masterwork. This weapon represents the lifetime achievement of a master smith.

A weapon or armor cannot have a Condition higher than its Quality rating. E.g., a Junk weapon can never have Condition greater than 1. If Condition reaches zero, the item is considered Broken. Through the use of appropriate Craft skill (either by a hero or by an NPC) gear can be repaired. The TN for repairing a damaged item depends on whether it is Broken (Condition of 0) or merely damaged (Condition 1 or more).

Gear Repair TNs
Condition : TN
Broken (0) : 20 + ( Quality x 2 )
Damaged (1+) : 10 + ( Quality x 2 )

So a Fine sword that has a Condition of 2 would require a Craft roll of 18 to restore it to Condition 4.

Heroes care about the quality and condition of their gear because it has direct effect on their fighting ability. Condition determines the number of success dice that can be used, for attack rolls in the case of weapons and protection rolls in the case of armor. E.g., if a hero has weapon skill of 4 but the Condition of his weapon is only 3, he can only roll 3 Success dice when attacking. A broken item, therefore, allows no Success dice to be rolled.

The Quality of an item, regardless of its current Condition, determines how likely it is to lose Condition points during use (in addition to affecting the TN for repairing it.) When an item risks damage a Gear Check is rolled, which is done with a Feat die and a number of Success dice equal to the Quality of the item.

Whenever a failure with an eye is rolled (for attacks with weapons, or Protection rolls with armor) a Gear Check must be made. The TN is equal to 10 plus the attribute level of the relevant adversary:
On a normal failure the item loses a point of Condition.
On a failure with an Eye the item is Broken (Condition becomes 0).
On a Gandalf, if the adversary is wielding a weapon and that weapon has a Quality lower than the hero’s weapon or armor (as applicable), the adversary’s weapon breaks.
Remember that the number of Success dice is equal to Quality, regardless of current Condition.

Under most circumstances adversaries don’t make Gear Checks, unless the LM chooses otherwise.

[Glorelendil]

Addendum to the above: one of the uses of the Craft skill would be evaluating weapons, with the effect (on success) of letting you find something better than might otherwise be available. Let's say you're picking through an armory or the bodies of slain foes looking to replace your broken sword. The LM rules that these guys have mostly Quality 2 weapons. So you roll Craft and succeed, letting you find one of Quality 3 (+1). On a Great or Extraordinary success you'd find one of Quality 4 (+2).

I had similar Quality/Condition rules in mind for horses, and thus a similar skill-based mechanic for finding/buying/stealing horses, although I hadn't decided where "horsemanship" would fit into the skill matrix. But it seems like a more important skill in Hyboria than it does in Middle Earth.

[Stilts]

Wow, that's quite fleshed out. Did you test it out with your group? If so, how was it received?

[Glorelendil]

Wow, that's quite fleshed out. Did you test it out with your group? If so, how was it received?

Not play-tested. It's part of an incomplete port I was attempting.

Fun exercise, though.

EDIT: I'm not convinced of the need for gear degradation in the Tolkien setting, though. In a Conan setting the goal is specifically to 'encourage' players to frequently pick up new weapons (along with some other mechanics) because that theme is so integral to the source material. But in Tolkien it's the exact opposite: many characters are strongly associated with a single, specific weapon. Also, many items in TOR are plot-proof that, to me, it feels awkward to say, "These rules only apply to non-magical and non-Reward weapons." What problem are you trying to solve with the additional rules?

[Stilts]

It's mostly to address the issues I pointed out in the OP. It's designed to only occur, on average, once every Adventure or every other Adventure. The fact that characters become so attached to a single weapon means, under these rules, they won't simply use it for every single fight, and will take care of it when it does happen to get degraded. You could also put a cap of 3 levels of degradation on a single item, to reflect the maximum of 3 qualities per item.

[zedturtle]

I don't know... I think that sort of thing is just something that should be abstracted in TOR. We're not keeping track of arrows or worrying about recovering spears after a combat or whether the hobbit is using the same short sword that she was six months ago, unless and until it becomes important to the story.

[Glorelendil]

I don't know... I think that sort of thing is just something that should be abstracted in TOR. We're not keeping track of arrows or worrying about recovering spears after a combat or whether the hobbit is using the same short sword that she was six months ago, unless and until it becomes important to the story.

Yeah, this is where I come out. If there's a story reason to break a weapon, break it.

And encouraging heros to carry a golf bag of weapons (exaggeration, I know) feels untolkienlike.

[Robin Smallburrow]

Generally I agree with what others have said on this issue, mainly it becomes important only if significant storywise. But I understand that some what more rules on this, so look in an earlier thread for Ferretz's "Fellowship Creations" document as he went into more detail about Crafting during the Fellowship Phase.

For myself I prefer to make rulings on damaged weapons etc. when an Eye result occurs - these are the sort of things that come under 'complications' due to an Eye result IMHO. I certainly agree that repairing any equipment should be an Undertaking of some sort - I will be putting all Fellowship Phase stuff into a new topic, so standby!

Robin S.

[Stilts]

As much as I like keeping the record keeping low and maintaining the generalized style of TOR, I think that it improves more concepts than it worsens. Under the RAW, why would a Dwarf ever use his short sword (the same question goes for other cultures with two melee weapons)? Why would anybody choose to wear the heaviest armour? What other Undertaking is even half as good as healing corruption? Degradation makes other options in these situations more viable. If it's the negative nature of the thing that throws people off, I'll gladly use a beneficial mechanic instead, if it provides the same variety.

Granted, I haven't tested it, but I'm confident enough to try and report back after I do.