Curses, foiled again!

[Glorelendil]

I'm working on some content around magical items, and wrote the following about curses. (First draft here.) Any comments/input/disagreement?

The word “curse” probably evokes the image of an evil witch maliciously casting a spell on an enemy. But in the case of magical items in Middle Earth the meaning of the word is much broader. A curse can simply mean that an item was created with assumptions about the power and ability of its possessor, and unintended consequences manifest if wielded by a lesser individual. Other times a curse represents osmosis from a previous owner, for magic is woven through everyone and everything in Middle-Earth, and though it is usually far too subtle for most to see (excepting perhaps a few individuals such as Gandalf and Galadriel), that magic affects the people and things around it.

For example, Pippin’s interaction with the Palantir suggests a kind of curse: one glimpse and the stone became a compulsion for him, overriding his common sense. But it is doubtful that such an effect was intentionally infused into the stone; it was more likely a result either of its recent use, or even of the nature of the power of the stone itself working on the mind of somebody not meant to wield it.

[Rue]

Re: the last example (Pippin), I'd add that the corruption inherent in being used for the Shadow's purposes means the Palantir has acquired a less wholesome taint than just that Pippin is not a strong-minded enough wielder. A double-layer, as it were.

[Glorelendil]

Re: the last example (Pippin), I'd add that the corruption inherent in being used for the Shadow's purposes means the Palantir has acquired a less wholesome taint than just that Pippin is not a strong-minded enough wielder. A double-layer, as it were.

True, although even without the Shadow taint it might have resulted in Shadow gain, as it impelled him to do something less than noble (i.e., stealing it from Gandalf in the middle of the night and sneaking off with it.) I think it is a good example of a curse, even without the connection to Sauron.

[Stilts]

If the unintended consequences due to a lesser wielder are actually positive, like the Ent draught causing Merry and Pippin to grow taller, I would call it an enchantment rather than a curse. I would describe a curse as something that has dwindled/marred/negatively altered an otherwise exceptional item, person, or place.

The dead men of Dunharrow were cursed by Isildur, making them shadows of their former selves. The treasure of Erebor was cursed with Smaug's greed, making it unwholesome to own. The One Ring, I would think, was not intended to provide Sauron's enemies the power of invisibility and the ability to understand the languages of evil creatures. The Ring was intended for Sauron alone. Yet I would classify those abilities as enchantments rather than curses.

But, eh, it's semantics.

[Glorelendil]

If the unintended consequences due to a lesser wielder are actually positive, like the Ent draught causing Merry and Pippin to grow taller, I would call it an enchantment rather than a curse. I would describe a curse as something that has dwindled/marred/negatively altered an otherwise exceptional item, person, or place.

The dead men of Dunharrow were cursed by Isildur, making them shadows of their former selves. The treasure of Erebor was cursed with Smaug's greed, making it unwholesome to own. The One Ring, I would think, was not intended to provide Sauron's enemies the power of invisibility and the ability to understand the languages of evil creatures. The Ring was intended for Sauron alone. Yet I would classify those abilities as enchantments rather than curses.

But, eh, it's semantics.

It is semantics to some extent, but I think it's worth discussing because it can expand the possibilities for LMs. So, yes, I do believe than what is technically an enchantment could count as a "curse" if the result is disadvantageous to the recipient. I think that's in the spirit of getting an Eye on a treasure roll.

If somebody with poor driving skills gets into a Porsche Carrera GT, they might think the car is not only cursed but possessed. To others it might have a Greater Blessing.

[Rue]

True, although even without the Shadow taint it might have resulted in Shadow gain, as it impelled him to do something less than noble (i.e., stealing it from Gandalf in the middle of the night and sneaking off with it.) I think it is a good example of a curse, even without the connection to Sauron.

I completely agree--there were multiple reasons the Palantir was dangerous for Pippin; my point was that the double nature of the problem wasn't obvious in your original wording. Even just a parenthetical aside like "(irrespective of the Palantir's more recent taint from the Shadow)" or something.

[Glorelendil]

True, although even without the Shadow taint it might have resulted in Shadow gain, as it impelled him to do something less than noble (i.e., stealing it from Gandalf in the middle of the night and sneaking off with it.) I think it is a good example of a curse, even without the connection to Sauron.

I completely agree--there were multiple reasons the Palantir was dangerous for Pippin; my point was that the double nature of the problem wasn't obvious in your original wording. Even just a parenthetical aside like "(irrespective of the Palantir's more recent taint from the Shadow)" or something.

Very true, and good point. I would have liked to have found an example that didn't include such obvious Shadow taint.

[Rue]

Very true, and good point. I would have liked to have found an example that didn't include such obvious Shadow taint.

From The Two Towers, Chapter VI "The King of the Golden Hall":

"Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'"

It's pretty much the extreme, (i.e., death even though the item has no taint of Shadow), but it make the point.

[zedturtle]

Very true, and good point. I would have liked to have found an example that didn't include such obvious Shadow taint.

From The Two Towers, Chapter VI "The King of the Golden Hall":

"Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'"

It's pretty much the extreme, (i.e., death even though the item has no taint of Shadow), but it make the point.

Well, I think that's a threat ("a promise" says Aragorn), not a curse... though it could be.

I agree that the difference between a curse and a blessing can be (but isn't always) a matter of perspective.

[Rue]

Well, I think that's a threat ("a promise" says Aragorn), not a curse... though it could be.

I agree that the difference between a curse and a blessing can be (but isn't always) a matter of perspective.

Maybe that depends on whether the death comes from touching the sword, or Aragorn after he finds out you've touched the sword...