Now that the Rivendell Supplement is out...

[Armegil]

I thought it was interesting to compare my Fan High Elves Heroic Culture to what the Game Designer chose to publish...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/539 ... 0Elves.pdf

Note: This was done shortly after the First Edition was published in 2011...

[Armegil]

No, I was not wondering which one people thought was better.

I wanted peoples opinions on whether I was correct in analysis and assumptions on how the TOR Cultures are created. Did I capture the spirit of what the design would be; were the selections I made close to what was published, or way off base, etc.

Since the published material is the rule and was made by professionals, I am wanting other peoples opinion of how I well did I do in my research to come up with my design?

I have always wanted to try designing my own game system, so I have been practicing by analysing existing games that I like, to see if I can figure out what concepts and design practices are used by Professional Game Designers, and predict some of the "content" of future releases.

For instance, I am pleased that I had a concept of the "Guardians of Imladris" in my version that is present in the actual published High Elves of Rivendell Heroic Culture. It's not in the same form obviously, but I felt that that concept would be an aspect of the High Elven Culture. The designers also seem to feel that concept exists based on the lore.

Hope this makes sense. Any critiques are always welcome.

Thanks,

Armegil

[Glorelendil]

I think your original version was very much in the spirit of the original rulebook, and your Rivendell Elf would have fit in smoothly with the other cultures. "Buuuuut"...I think that sort of fit would be problematic, because High Elves from Rivendell should be...different. Better, even.

I love the official version because it is both more powerful and more vulnerable, if that makes sense.

On the other hand, it would have been challenging to offer a culture like the official one as fan-content, because other fans would blow gaskets over "imbalance". I think the official one has to be official to be accepted. Same with Dunedain.

[Armegil]

I think your original version was very much in the spirit of the original rulebook, and your Rivendell Elf would have fit in smoothly with the other cultures. "Buuuuut"...I think that sort of fit would be problematic, because High Elves from Rivendell should be...different. Better, even.

I love the official version because it is both more powerful and more vulnerable, if that makes sense.

On the other hand, it would have been challenging to offer a culture like the official one as fan-content, because other fans would blow gaskets over "imbalance". I think the official one has to be official to be accepted. Same with Dunedain.

Thanks for the comments Elfcrusher.

I agree with you 100% on the above. I also felt the Elves of Rivendell (and the Sindar of Lothlorien to a lesser extent) should be better than the Elves of Mirkwood (who are primarily Avari in origin), since the Player Characters Ancestors had dwelt awhile in the Undying Lands, and/or interacted directly with the Valar.

In my original version I had given the High Elves a total Attribute Score of 17 instead of the 14 point total used by the cultures in the original rules. I basically added 1 point to each Attribute using the Elves of Mirkwood Backgrounds as a starting Template.

This was the first thing that I changed (back to a 14 point total), because because my players, and most of the members of the old TOR Forums vehemently argued that for play balance and fairness I shouldn't create a culture that would be the "Power Gamers" dream. This was their position even though I had made High Elven skill advancement charts more costly in experience to compensate for the higher Attribute Total.

I am secretly pleased that my original idea had merit, since the 17 point Attribute Total concept is in the Official rules. And I think the disallowing the High Elves to take the Heal Corruption Fellowship Phase undertaking that Francesco implemented in the Official Rules is ingenious. It really counterbalances the advantages of the Higher Attributes (and skill points). The High Elves are powerful, but they also are more susceptible to corruption. Which fits very well with the "Doom of the Noldor" in the Silmarillion.

"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever. ..."

By actively adventuring, a High Elf risks corruption, and the only way to heal the corruption requires the High Elf to become more likely to fail at the things they love (Common Skils). Music and Song lose their joy, Crafting loses it luster, Research becomes more of a chore, and less a pleasure. All the while, the Combat Skills are unaffected (because they can't be marked to remove corruption), and so all that is left is combat and the "The Long Defeat". A life of eternal conflict and strife, with all the things you enjoy and love now difficult to do.

Eventually the High Elf diminishes and goes into the West, or is killed and goes to the Halls of Mandos... Great stuff from a game mechanic, and as a role-play trigger as well.

[Falenthal]

I think the official one has to be official to be accepted. Same with Dunedain.

Agreed.

In fact I don't quite like the mechanics of the official Hight Elves and Dúnedain. I see them a little more like Armegil has shown: variations in numbers from the core cultures (more starting points for attributes and/or common skills and such) but not necessarily with new mechanics (more bookkeeping, new things to learn and keep in mind).

Not to say they are bad, but if someone had posted here his version of the Rivendell elves and had involved new mechanics for Healing Shadow, making signs to the character sheet, new costs for increasing skills,... I would have stopped reading very early.

My own version of the Dúnedain and of the Rivendell Elves (this one is only scratched, as I'm not playing in Eriador right now) is much more similar to Armegil's one than to Francesco. Regarding Shadow, I just rule that every action or undertaking that lowers the Shadow score results in half (rounded down) of the Shadow being removed. This doesn't address the "fading of the elves", which Francesco does, but is not an issue for me when bearing in mind that the game already has mechanics for Flaws gaining that end up with elves sailing to the West.

[Armegil]

My own version of the Dúnedain and of the Rivendell Elves (this one is only scratched, as I'm not playing in Eriador right now) is much more similar to Armegil's one than to Francesco. Regarding Shadow, I just rule that every action or undertaking that lowers the Shadow score results in half (rounded down) of the Shadow being removed. This doesn't address the "fading of the elves", which Francesco does, but is not an issue for me when bearing in mind that the game already has mechanics for gaining Flaws that end up with elves sailing to the West.

In many ways I think I like your solution better than Francesco's...

As you say, the game already has the mechanics for Flaws gaining that end up with elves sailing to the West, so limiting a players ability to use his skills to get rid of corruption seems to possibly penalize a player who wants to do more than just combat. Plus the player spent Advancement points to raise the skills, and eventually all will be marked by shadow, and become more difficult to use. Still not sure how this will work out over the long term, but I can see some players becoming irritated by the mechanic.

[Rocmistro]

My version of High Elves had them with hope scores of 2+ Heart (usually in the 5-7 range), and they only needed 4 permanent shadow points (instead of 5) before they headed for the Grey Havens.

In addition, at each "year's end", a High Elf received a shadow point.

Also, their permanent shadow points were carried as penalties to certain tasks.

[Glorelendil]

My version of High Elves had them with hope scores of 2+ Heart (usually in the 5-7 range), and they only needed 4 permanent shadow points (instead of 5) before they headed for the Grey Havens.

In addition, at each "year's end", a High Elf received a shadow point.

Also, their permanent shadow points were carried as penalties to certain tasks.

Jeez. Harsh.

Did you make them always get pulled aside for additional screening by airport security, too?

[Falenthal]

My own version of the Dúnedain and of the Rivendell Elves (this one is only scratched, as I'm not playing in Eriador right now) is much more similar to Armegil's one than to Francesco. Regarding Shadow, I just rule that every action or undertaking that lowers the Shadow score results in half (rounded down) of the Shadow being removed. This doesn't address the "fading of the elves", which Francesco does, but is not an issue for me when bearing in mind that the game already has mechanics for gaining Flaws that end up with elves sailing to the West.

In many ways I think I like your solution better than Francesco's...

Just for the sake of completliness, in my draft they keep their Heart in their range of 3-5 and Hope score is 8+Heart. Not very high, but enough so that they have problems only after a few adventures and then begin using most of their Undertakings for singing or crafting in Rivendell (which I find very canon).