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Glad to see this being picked up anew. Even if I did put many many hours into that map.

Osric wrote: I really welcomed Tensen01's map, which was invaluable for my A Murder of Gorcrows adventure. Big thanks to you, T, and everyone else who contributed. But forgive me if, having missed the party, I make some belated comments now.

I don't remember whether it was stated in the discussions leading to the final version, but there must be side streets and alleys not depicted on it.

I'd welcome there being more than four quarters. No one ever interprets that use of the word literally, do they?

It seems odd that Dale-town should sit back 100 yards from the main course of the River Running, and be linked to it only by canals. Even though we know no large vessels can navigate so far up the River, and I do love the canals thing, I still can't let go of the idea that the main docks should be on the riverfront itself.
I said (or borrowed) that the Docks area and river trade services in general were dominated by folk hailing from Lake-town.

Yes, it was basically that those streets on the map were only the large main streets, there would have been numerous side streets & alleys.

I take Quarters literally :p

My only real reason for doing the river as I did in my map was that I was basing Dale on Bruges due to the reference to the importance of canals, no other reason really. I mean, I basically traced an old map of Bruges and just drew new streets and modified the Canals a bit

I've yet to read it Rich, but it's looking beautiful as always

Rich H wrote:Here's a teaser of the introduction and history chapters to whet the appetite:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/795 ... ple%29.pdf

Looking good Rich!


My very minor contribution to this work:

1) Sources for 'City of Dale' in original works, lifted from Tolkien Gateway:

1.↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, "Thrór's Map"
2.↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, "An Unexpected Party"
3.↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, "On the Doorstep"
4.↑ 4.0 4.1 4.2 J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix B, "The Third Age"
5.↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, "Fire and Water"
6.↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, "The Last Stage"
7.↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings"
8.↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, "The Council of Elrond"
9.↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix B, "The Great Years"


Images / artists rendition of Dale (also lifted from Tolkien Gateway): http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Category:Images_of_Dale


Resurrecting Dale: City of a Thousand Untold Stories (an interesting article):
http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/10/ ... d-stories/

Sounds like a great project Rich, wish I had a bit more time to help out.

I'll chip in with ideas when I can.

Cheers guys. Making slow but steady progress here.

I was just thinking about political factions that might be present in Dale.

Feel free to use or expand any of it, or to spark other ideas.

King's Court (different nobles from parts of the growing Kingdom of Dale, may have old grievences and scores to settle)

Different Merchant Houses/Consortiums (was thinking of those that deal with Erebor, Elves of Mirkwood, Dorwinion, lands of Rhun and the surrounding settlements of the Kingdom of Dale.) they may via for power - tied in with the noble houses.

Dwarven Quarter - The Dwarves are going to have a strong presence in Dale obviously, again how do they interact with the other factions in the city).

A band of thieves/con men/scoundrels may be present in the city (how organised would they be?)

A secret cult of Shadow - could be interesting. Working to undermine the stability of the city - through proxy.

A rivalry between the different peoples of Dale could be an interesting thing to explore. Depending how you draw together the various cultural groups that would make up the city.


Hope this helps, food for thought and all that.

Cheers for the post, poosticks.

poosticks7 wrote:King's Court (different nobles from parts of the growing Kingdom of Dale, may have old grievences and scores to settle)

I've listed a few of the major personalities at court - eg, Bard, his wife, councillor, various ambassadors so there will be some major players listed. I may use the above to refer to as potential developments but not go into any more detail.

poosticks7 wrote:Different Merchant Houses/Consortiums (was thinking of those that deal with Erebor, Elves of Mirkwood, Dorwinion, lands of Rhun and the surrounding settlements of the Kingdom of Dale.) they may via for power - tied in with the noble houses.

I'm going with having guilds in a bit of a state of flux - ie, there are lots of small guilds and independent traders (no yellow vans though) vying for power/leverage. There's one growing in power, The Guild of Gold, which is looking to monopolise trade in Dale. I thought it best to leave all the potential elements so that LMs could go their own way without too much difficulty.

poosticks7 wrote:Dwarven Quarter - The Dwarves are going to have a strong presence in Dale obviously, again how do they interact with the other factions in the city).

I've not gone with something like that (ie, a Dwarven Quarter) as I'm not keen on the idea of segregation in such a way. There'll definitely be guilds or trade groups effectively controlled by dwarves though (eg, toymakers, ore and metal traders from Erebor, etc).

poosticks7 wrote:A band of thieves/con men/scoundrels may be present in the city (how organised would they be?)

Yep, got some thieves operating in the city.

poosticks7 wrote:A secret cult of Shadow - could be interesting. Working to undermine the stability of the city - through proxy.

That's a nice idea. Wondering whether it'd be best to list that as a future development when the Shadow returns to Mirkwood.

poosticks7 wrote:A rivalry between the different peoples of Dale could be an interesting thing to explore. Depending how you draw together the various cultural groups that would make up the city.

Could put that in the "Adventure Ideas" section.

poosticks7 wrote:Hope this helps, food for thought and all that.

Yep, cracking stuff. Thanks.

poosticks7 wrote:Dwarven Quarter - The Dwarves are going to have a strong presence in Dale obviously, again how do they interact with the other factions in the city).



I've not gone with something like that (ie, a Dwarven Quarter) as I'm not keen on the idea of segregation in such a way. There'll definitely be guilds or trade groups effectively controlled by dwarves though (eg, toymakers, ore and metal traders from Erebor, etc).

Isn't there a specific street in Dale which is home to all the Dwarven toymakers and other craftmen?

Beleg wrote:Isn't there a specific street in Dale which is home to all the Dwarven toymakers and other craftmen?

For me, that's more to do with the fact that all toymakers are Dwarven rather than Dwarves creating their own little ghetto to live in; other elements within Dale based on trade share the same area of the city - eg, fishmongers near water supplies, etc. There are Dwarves in other parts of the city in my opinion. To be honest, I'm not enamoured with the idea of a "Dwarven Quarter" - the ambassador of the Dwarves will be found in and around the royal court, dwarf toymakers with other fine craftsman, dwarf stoneworkers with other labourers, etc; not all returning to live in a "Dwarven Quarter" in some part of town. At least that's my take!

I see your reasoning now Rich, and I agree. It works in Laketown, but I also reckon Dwarves would just be an almost ubiquitous presence in Dale