Elves and spears

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Yepesnopes
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Elves and spears

Post by Yepesnopes » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:42 am

I am not an expert at Tolkien lore, so I am looking for an explanation on why Mirkwood elves and High Elves are stated with spears instead of swords in the game.

Thanks in advance
Yepes

Morgoth
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by Morgoth » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:10 am

Excerpts from The Hobbit:

Barrels out of Bond:
Out leaped Wood-elves with their bows and spears and called the dwarves to halt.
Gathering of Clouds:
The next morning early a company of spearmen was seen crossing the river, and marching up the valley. They bore with them the green banner of the Elvenking and the blue banner of the Lake, and they advanced until they stood right before the wall at the Gate.
The Clouds Burst:
The elves were the first to charge. Their hatred for the goblins is cold and bitter. Their spears and swords shone in the gloom with a gleam of chill flame, so deadly was the wrath of the hands that held them. As soon as the host of their enemies was dense in the valley, they sent against it a shower of arrows, and each flickered as it fled as if with stinging fire. Behind the arrows a thousand of their spearmen leapt down and charged.
Down too came many of the Lake-men, for Bard could not restrain them; and out upon the other side came many of the spearmen of the elves.
I smashed down the light and dared Valinor
I smashed down the light, revenge will be mine

Faire
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by Faire » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:17 am

Morgoth wrote:Excerpts from The Hobbit:...
Not even mentioning Elu's axe-elves.

Woodclaw
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by Woodclaw » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:45 am

The spear seem to be quite widespread among the various elven culture as a weapon of war or hunting. If memory serve me well, Gil-Galad used a spear while fighting against the hordes of Mordor during the War of the Last Alliance. As for the wood elves of Mirkwood, the spear is a better hunting weapon than a sword, so it makes sense for the them to favour it over the sword.
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by Falenthal » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:33 am

Regarding Wood-elves, The Hobbit leaves no doubt that they extensively use bows and spears. It also makes sense to pierce through the bushes and not to swing a sword.

As for the Noldo, I think that the Silmarillion both presents their armies as wielding swords and spears. And yes, Gil-galad wielded a Great Spear (Aiglos).

Additionally, I introduce here the fact that Sinda elves are mostly depicted as axe wielders. Maybe a Favoured weapon for Lórien Elves?

Faire
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by Faire » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:15 am

Reintroduce :)

It should be mentioned that the source is Silmarillion and that by the time of LOTR it might have been a habit long passed away (I do not remember anything from LOTR).

On the other hand: in the end soldiers will always try to use what is effective, unless it creates too much suffering (moral limits). There is nothing immoral about axes for elves - they most likely worked with wood as any other culture did, though they would not fell a tree without a good thought about it. Let us not forget that they were keen on hunting - they were very willing to take an animal life, why not fell a tree than?

And spears are of course very effective - especially where the cooperation between the soldiers is good, and elves had enough time and reasons to hone their war-craft. And of course a spear is not any less moral than a sword.

Falenthal
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by Falenthal » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:45 am

Faire wrote:Reintroduce :)

It should be mentioned that the source is Silmarillion and that by the time of LOTR it might have been a habit long passed away (I do not remember anything from LOTR).

On the other hand: in the end soldiers will always try to use what is effective, unless it creates too much suffering (moral limits). There is nothing immoral about axes for elves - they most likely worked with wood as any other culture did, though they would not fell a tree without a good thought about it. Let us not forget that they were keen on hunting - they were very willing to take an animal life, why not fell a tree than?

And spears are of course very effective - especially where the cooperation between the soldiers is good, and elves had enough time and reasons to hone their war-craft. And of course a spear is not any less moral than a sword.
I agree fully with you. All quotes are related to The Silmarillion, and I've also not found anything regarding their weapons in the LotR. Only regarding to the Lórien Elves using Great Bows (or, at least, stronger bows than the ones used by the Mirkwood elves).
To Legolas she gave a bow such as the Galadhrim used, longer and stouter than the bows of Mirkwood,...
From the Silmrillion:
At this time therefore the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off an creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol's armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail;
Then Beleg Strongbow, chief of the march-wardens of Thingol, brought great strength
of the Sindar armed with axes into Brethil

poosticks7
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by poosticks7 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:20 pm

I reckon the spear would be the main weapon of every culture (with the exception of hobbits and dwarves).

Obviously not from a game point but from a world view point - the spear is the weapon of choice in the dark ages for the average warrior. It's cheap, effective and relatively easy to replace.

shipwreck
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by shipwreck » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:17 pm

Woodclaw wrote:If memory serve me well, Gil-Galad used a spear while fighting against the hordes of Mordor during the War of the Last Alliance.
His sword was long, his lance was keen

I wonder if any of you historians can chime in on the historical uses of spears in the Dark/Middle Ages? If memory serves it seems like spears were preferred until [very] close combat was engaged.
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Hermes Serpent
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Re: Elves and spears

Post by Hermes Serpent » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:30 pm

Spears were used by just about everyone and swords were the province of rich warriors. Most wouldn't have any more protection than a shield with mail again limited to rich warriors. The saex (a longish knife) was the sidearm of the anglo-saxon warrior. The metal head of a spear required little technological knowledge whereas forging a sword was very much cutting edge technology (no pun intended).
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