Auto-hit on attack rolls

[PipeSmoker]

Guys, please, I need help with a tricky matter. Or maybe I'm just dumb.
The "Rune scored armour" and "Runes of victory" Enchanted Qualities from Rivendell grant an automatic succes with Gs and Eyes on Attack or Protection rolls.
This led me to think on the way we roll at our table.

Since Gs, under RAW, grant automatic success on Common skill rolls, I as LM took the same reasoning for Attack and Protection rolls, but is it correct?

If it is correct, it means that "Rune scored armour" and "Runes of victory" only add auto success with Eyes, which seems not that good... or is it better than it seems?

Please I need to clarify this!

[Glorelendil]

Yes, Gandalfs are always autosuccesses.

And, yes, getting the auto-success on an Eye is powerful. Why? Because a disproportionate number of your misses are currently on Eye rolls.

If that's not apparent, think about this: what do you have to roll on two Success dice to hit TN 14 when the Feat die is a 10?

Now what do you need on the Success dice when the Feat die is 0 (that is, Eye)?

[PipeSmoker]

Yeah, that really makes sense!
Was worried we handled that wrong since the beginning... phew!
Thank you, Elf!

[HotSnow50]

If that's not apparent, think about this: what do you have to roll on two Success dice to hit TN 14 when the Feat die is a 10?

Now what do you need on the Success dice when the Feat die is 0 (that is, Eye)?

Awesome example. My only further question is, did the OP mean to ask for an explanation as to why you could get such rampant success with Gandalf runes with the rusty dagger you pull out of a corpse somewhere in Mirkwood and then when you upgrade to an elvish-make sword from Gondolin, you get no real apparent increase in potency with the upgrade when Gandalf runes are the consideration?

Just asking to see if that helps at all, sorry to y'all if I missed the mark, especially you OP

[zedturtle]

If that's not apparent, think about this: what do you have to roll on two Success dice to hit TN 14 when the Feat die is a 10?

Now what do you need on the Success dice when the Feat die is 0 (that is, Eye)?

Awesome example. My only further question is, did the OP mean to ask for an explanation as to why you could get such rampant success with Gandalf runes with the rusty dagger you pull out of a corpse somewhere in Mirkwood and then when you upgrade to an elvish-make sword from Gondolin, you get no real apparent increase in potency with the upgrade when Gandalf runes are the consideration?

Just asking to see if that helps at all, sorry to y'all if I missed the mark, especially you OP

I have a hard time parsing this as an honest request... The roll of a Gandalf rune represents the occasional moment of providence taking action, and the weapon nor the hand wielding it are anything other than what is needed right then... remember that a junky dagger found in a hillside did the Witch-King of Angmar in.*

- - - - - -

* I seem to recall that you might have only seen the movies and not read the books (or at least not recently), in which case this sentence might seem strange to you... Merry's weapon came from the Barrow-downs, and was set with magics to battle against the Witch King, which was assaulting the land at that time... it was a junky dagger found in a hillside, but it was also the perfect weapon for one of the most important moments in Merry's life.

[HotSnow50]

I have a hard time parsing this as an honest request... The roll of a Gandalf rune represents the occasional moment of providence taking action, and the weapon nor the hand wielding it are anything other than what is needed right then... remember that a junky dagger found in a hillside did the Witch-King of Angmar in.*

- - - - - -

* I seem to recall that you might have only seen the movies and not read the books (or at least not recently), in which case this sentence might seem strange to you... Merry's weapon came from the Barrow-downs, and was set with magics to battle against the Witch King, which was assaulting the land at that time... it was a junky dagger found in a hillside, but it was also the perfect weapon for one of the most important moments in Merry's life.

Sorry for the confusion there, Zed, but I wasn't the Original Poster... Likely that's why it's hard for you to understand my addition to this post ;D. Also, I've read all the books as WELL as seen the films, and it's a few of the guys I'm gonna run the adventure for that have ONLY seen the films. I was just jumping in and posting because I thought the OP's question was getting misunderstood... No worries though

[PipeSmoker]

My doubt was efficently answered by Elf...
On the contrary, I did not get your reasoning, HotSnow, really... Uh,oh?

[Glorelendil]

My doubt was efficently answered by Elf...
On the contrary, I did not get your reasoning, HotSnow, really... Uh,oh?

I think what HotSnow was thinking was that a Gandalf is sort of like rolling a 20 in a d20 game, and a "crit" should somehow scale with the weapon.

But it's not. It's an auto-success, regardless of odds, not an "extra-special success". Those are determined by the number of Tengwars.

[HotSnow50]

I think what HotSnow was thinking was that a Gandalf is sort of like rolling a 20 in a d20 game, and a "crit" should somehow scale with the weapon.

But it's not. It's an auto-success, regardless of odds, not an "extra-special success". Those are determined by the number of Tengwars.

That actually was my error, Elfcrusher is right. I am coming from a D20 system and this is all fairly new to me. Honestly I like this system better, I was never one for the whole numbers game, myself!

[Glorelendil]

I think what HotSnow was thinking was that a Gandalf is sort of like rolling a 20 in a d20 game, and a "crit" should somehow scale with the weapon.

But it's not. It's an auto-success, regardless of odds, not an "extra-special success". Those are determined by the number of Tengwars.

That actually was my error, Elfcrusher is right. I am coming from a D20 system and this is all fairly new to me. Honestly I like this system better, I was never one for the whole numbers game, myself!

One thing you'll grow to appreciate is the probability distribution. In d20 it's strictly linear: if you have +5 to hit then your chance of getting your highest roll (25) is exactly the same as getting, say, a 17.

TOR is way more complex, mathematically. Your chance of hitting a very high/impossible shot never dips below 1/12, and the range of target numbers that are above 1/12 is a curve that stretches farther and farther out.

For example, with a skill of 1 you have a 1/12 chance to hit anything above a 16, and a very slightly higher chance to hit exactly a 16 (e.g. if you roll a 10 and a 6). At 3 skill you have a 1/12 chance to hit anything above a 28, but your chance of hitting exactly a 28 without the Gandalf is terribly small: you'd have to roll a 10 and 3 6's.

But the other thing that happens with more dice is that your successes have an increased probability of being extra effective, because you have a higher probability of getting more Tengwars than with fewer dice. So it's sort of like playing a Fighter in D&D and having your crit range increase at higher levels, but again with a probability curve rather than a linear distribution.

I don't know if any of that made sense. I thought I "got it" when I first read the rules, but the elegance of the system continues to amaze me.