How do you guys handle players who...

[HotSnow50]

How do you guys handle players who stray from the elven path on their way through Mirkwood (intentionally or not) who neither have the skills nor the guidance (guide NPC) to make it back to the path again? I don't want the players to just wither and die, and I am sure I can come up with some Loremaster-ish way to CHASE them back onto the path, but, I am just curious as to how you would handle such a situation.

This same logic, I would say, applies to players who lose their guide whilst traversing Moria, or maybe even somehow getting turned around whilst inside a large cavern, where no SERIOUS threats are present like giant spiders or wights/ghouls, but instead, the lack of agreed-upon direction coupled with a lack of skill to deal with navigation where the Loremaster is the only "way out."

Thanks in advance!

[shipwreck]

I don't have a good rule/system for you to utilize, but I think if you can wrangle them into a situation where they survive but just barely, then that would be the best course of action.

Otherwise...

[Glorelendil]

A little bit of deus ex machina meets Revelation episode, perhaps? Make something really bad happen, but if they figure a way out it actually helps them find the path again. E.g., they are captured by spiders who take them back to their lair, which conveniently (assuming they can escape) has a path back to the trail.

[Falenthal]

On the other hand, most rolls can be transformed into a success by spending Hope points.
Maybe, before helping them deus-ex machina, make them roll some Explore tests and refresh the option of using Hope points.

Otherwise, what Elfcrusher suggest is a good solution: don't make Radagast appear and show them the way. Make a pack of spiders or Forest Goblins appear that have their lair near the path... so they can ambush whoever strays from it.

[HotSnow50]

E.g., they are captured by spiders who take them back to their lair, which conveniently (assuming they can escape) has a path back to the trail.

OMG I love this! Check out my immediate brainstorm:

*From where you are suspended, through the strands of glistening and gooey strands holding you fast to the limbs, you can see some portions of the trees and surrounding terrain* "Roll your awarenesses/search everybody"

*after they make their rolls, assuming half or more make successful rolls, I tell them that DIRECTLY below their predicaments, there is a short 5-10 meter distance to a set of cobbled shale stones that [you] recognize INSTANTLY as the Elven Path that you lost just before you ran into the spiders!*
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH this is going in IMMEDIATELY! Thank you Elfcrusher!!!

[HotSnow50]

On the other hand, most rolls can be transformed into a success by spending Hope points.
Maybe, before helping them deus-ex machina, make them roll some Explore tests and refresh the option of using Hope points.

Otherwise, what Elfcrusher suggest is a good solution: don't make Radagast appear and show them the way. Make a pack of spiders or Forest Goblins appear that have their lair near the path... so they can ambush whoever strays from it.

Totally agree, Man. Best that they work it out themselves. I also figure it'd be good if one or more of the party has accrued some sort of failure on their journey phase so that I can have the spiders poison one or another of them, to give a little penalty for me getting their butts out of the fire. Plus, they are almost in the Woodland Realm anyhow, so help is close at hand, giving them yet more of a need to convince Thranduil that they need shelter and rest!

[Murcushio]

... wait, what?

Nobody in the whole Fellowship has enough Travel or Explore to navigate themselves out of Mirkwood? They don't have someone with Hunting, who can feed the Fellowship until that happens?

I can't speak for other Fellowships, but my own Fellowship goes into Mirkwood all the damn time. We kind of have to, it's a giant evil forest and a lot of, you know, the plot happens there. We've traipsed all over the Heart of Mirkwood and the the Haunted Hills and even the Woodland Realm. We didn't need no trail. We rolled Travel until we got where we were going, or we rolled Explore until we found what we were looking for.

So I guess I'm completely unclear as to why this is such a big-deal life-or-death situation for your Fellowship. The elf-path runs through what is, comparatively, a non-threatening part of Mirkwood. Unless it is the dead of winter, they should be fine. They just have to find the way to their destination without a convenient path is all, something they should, as adventurers, know how to do anyway.

Travel is maybe the most important skill in the game. They should learn to love it.

[HotSnow50]

... wait, what?

Nobody in the whole Fellowship has enough Travel or Explore to navigate themselves out of Mirkwood? They don't have someone with Hunting, who can feed the Fellowship until that happens?

I can't speak for other Fellowships, but my own Fellowship goes into Mirkwood all the damn time. We kind of have to, it's a giant evil forest and a lot of, you know, the plot happens there. We've traipsed all over the Heart of Mirkwood and the the Haunted Hills and even the Woodland Realm. We didn't need no trail. We rolled Travel until we got where we were going, or we rolled Explore until we found what we were looking for.

So I guess I'm completely unclear as to why this is such a big-deal life-or-death situation for your Fellowship. The elf-path runs through what is, comparatively, a non-threatening part of Mirkwood. Unless it is the dead of winter, they should be fine. They just have to find the way to their destination without a convenient path is all, something they should, as adventurers, know how to do anyway.

Travel is maybe the most important skill in the game. They should learn to love it.

Never said they didn't have the skill at all, just that they aren't really the explorer/adventurer type (at least that particular adventure). Every player is playing a character directly from the shire, and they are role playing as Hobbits that have never had any combat experience and (against a few of my Loremaster Character's advice) are traveling without a guide. If they stray from the path it will not be like a hardened adventurer, Elf, Stout Dwarf etc. working their way out, so I wanted to get some advice.

It's possible that we have some differences in our role playing styles

[Murcushio]

Ah. I see. That's... something of a non-standard party in something of a non-standard situation. The rules sort of rather make the assumption your adventurers are the hardy types, and are both willing and able to use violence to defend themselves or others, and take due precautions when venturing into the wild.

It sounds like this particular party... is not that.

Honestly, in that situation, I might bail them out (and others in the thread have given better ideas with regard to that than I have) but your Fellowship has behaved incredibly foolishly, if perhaps in-character. If it were me, I wouldn't pull punches.

[HotSnow50]

If it were me, I wouldn't pull punches.

I feel they are almost daring me to drop the death hammer, just wanted to see what the feeling was with y'all.

I think I'll give them the spider-route and see how they manage in a little tension with an action-oriented "out." If they make it out I might have Thranduil or at least one of his aids require that they accept one of their guides to escort them out of the Woodland Realm, if they refuse again, punches will be pulled and I'll just let a small orc patrol come through and slaughter them...

... Watch, they roll nothing but Gandalf's and take the orcs appart, foiling my plans yet again!!!