Concerning Wounds

[beckett]

This might be an incredibly stupid question, but here goes:

Page 132 of the Revised Core book states: if Endurance is back at maximum score after resting, the hero is no longer wounded. Page 161 on the Consequences of Failure table for Hazards, the Wounded line (#6) states: Lose Endurance equal to Success die result, or suffer a Wound on an EYE.

Shouldn't that read "Lose Endurance equal to Success die result, and suffer a Wound on an EYE?"

How can you be Wounded if you're at full Endurance? Even in combat you still take the Endurance damage if you fail your Protection test and suffer a Wound. If I'm missing something and you can be Wounded while at full Endurance, how would you remove the Wounded label?

For example, a hero with a treated Wound recovers 1 Endurance point for every night's rest while traveling (see page 161-162, revised core book). That's a slow pace of recovery (understandably) but should the Hero's Endurance reach its maximum the Wound heals and the player can remove the Wounded label -- that's my understanding of it. Is that correct?

Ok, so maybe that's two questions.

[zedturtle]

Well, in theory, a Wound received in this manner would be untreated (at least at first). So I'd rule that you can't recover from the Wound until you reach a safe place. But I think your idea is better... or perhaps I'm missing something, I'm still pretty shaky on the new Journey rules.

[beckett]

Well, in theory, a Wound received in this manner would be untreated (at least at first). So I'd rule that you can't recover from the Wound until you reach a safe place. But I think your idea is better... or perhaps I'm missing something, I'm still pretty shaky on the new Journey rules.

A 'safe place' applies to Fatigue recovery, not Wound recovery according to page 159 of the revised rules. A hero recovers from a Wound when his Endurance is at its maximum score. So, in theory, a hero can recover from a treated Wound while traveling since he gains 1 Endurance back per night's rest while traveling.

It's a head-scratcher, for sure.

[Robin Smallburrow]

There are at least two ways IIRC a character can be Wounded and still be at full Endurance:

1. Poisoned or Diseased - this actually happened in a playtest I ran where a PC was ambushed by an Attercop (which first ensnared the poor guy then immediately successfully Stung him (Called Shot) - result PC Poisoned (which is treated as being wounded remember).

2. Some of the Hazards that result in an Eye roll (as per your question). One example:

Abandoned Stores
The Scout discovers a seemingly abandoned
store of supplies, but must make a
successful Search or Hunting test to find a
leg trap near the supplies - failure means the
scout must make a Protection Test to avoid
being wounded by the trap

The Scout fails a Protection Test so is Wounded, yet might still be at full Endurance.

Hope this clarifies it for you - the RAW are correct.

Robin S.

[beckett]

There are at least two ways IIRC a character can be Wounded and still be at full Endurance:

1. Poisoned or Diseased - this actually happened in a playtest I ran where a PC was ambushed by an Attercop (which first ensnared the poor guy then immediately successfully Stung him (Called Shot) - result PC Poisoned (which is treated as being wounded remember).

2. Some of the Hazards that result in an Eye roll (as per your question). One example:

Abandoned Stores
The Scout discovers a seemingly abandoned
store of supplies, but must make a
successful Search or Hunting test to find a
leg trap near the supplies - failure means the
scout must make a Protection Test to avoid
being wounded by the trap

The Scout fails a Protection Test so is Wounded, yet might still be at full Endurance.

Hope this clarifies it for you - the RAW are correct.

Robin S.

Thank you, Robin. The RAW also states that a hero can remove the Wounded label once his Endurance is at its maximum. So my question is this: in your Hazard example, if the Scout is wounded while at full Endurance, how is the wound healed (not treated, but actually removed)?

Page 132 of the revised book discusses the healing of wounds:

Heal Wounds

When the Endurance score of an injured character reaches its maximum rating after a prolonged rest, the hero is considered to have been finally restored to full health, and the Wounded label on his character sheet can be unchecked.

[Hermes Serpent]

The clue seems to me to be in the phrase 'after an extended rest'. if you are Poisoned then after the first extended rest after the Poison effect is over you are recovered. If you are otherwise Wounded and at full Endurance then the Wounded effect remains until you have an extended rest. Where an extended rest is a full night's uninterrupted sleep. Simples!

[beckett]

The clue seems to me to be in the phrase 'after an extended rest'. if you are Poisoned then after the first extended rest after the Poison effect is over you are recovered. If you are otherwise Wounded and at full Endurance then the Wounded effect remains until you have an extended rest. Where an extended rest is a full night's uninterrupted sleep. Simples!

Poison is one thing. Orc-poison and Spider-poison both state the effects wear off after one day. So we can assume the Wound label can be removed once the poison wears off.

Using your suggestion, a hero Wounded in a Hazard episode while at Full Endurance can have the Wound "healed" (removed) after a prolonged rest. That seems inconsistent with most of the rules on healing/recovery. Also, that phrase (prolonged rest) is found in the Heal Wounds text I quoted earlier (from the revised book) and also in the Recovering Endurance while Travelling on page 163:

Travelling heroes recover a reduced number of Endurance points for every prolonged rest they enjoy. As usual, the amount depends on the current health of the character:

• A Wounded hero with an untreated injury does not recover any Endurance while travelling.
• A wounded hero with a treated injury recovers 1 Endurance point.
• An uninjured hero recovers 2 Endurance points.
The companions resume their normal pace of recovery when they reach the end of the journey and finally get to rest in a safe place (for a precise definition of a ‘safe place’, see Recovering form Fatigue at page 159)

Judging from the rules, it seems inconsistent for a Hero to be Wounded and then to have that Wound healed (removed) after one night's rest. That's seems inconsequential at best. Since a hero can, in theory, heal from a Wound while traveling, it would seem unfair to tell the player they can't heal from this particular Wound until they've reached a safe place. So...

It seems to me that the Consequences of Failure table for Hazards concerning the Wounded line (#6) is an oversight?

From the revised book: Lose Endurance equal to Success die result, or suffer a Wound on an EYE.

If the Wounded consequence for this Hazard failure is Endurance loss equal to Success die result, and suffer a Wound on an EYE, then the Hero can heal from that Wound in the number days it takes for his Endurance to return to its maximum score. That seems in keeping with the RAW.

[Hermes Serpent]

As there is no exact definition of Wounded except as a result of a piercing blow getting through your armour or being poisoned or suffering from disease we can describe the Wound as anything we like. When struck by a spear it is a wound that breaks the skin causing a small amount of Endurance loss. When poisoned we can describe the Wound as being the effect of the Poison, same for a disease, so suffering from blindness or paralysed for example. Only in the case of a poison as a side effect of a sword, bite or sting is there likely to be endurance damage.

If a wound is treated the mechanical effect is a change in endurance recovery so if there is no endurance loss then if a wound is treated on not has no effect in the game.

Some wound effects (poison or disease) have a limited duration when the mechanical effect is in play. If you are keeping track of time in a detailed manner you maybe able to say the poison from the orc's blade wears off at 2:30 pm but in a less detailed game it may be sufficient to say it wears off in the middle of the afternoon.

The Wound obtained in a Hazard will be described as part of the Hazard and will entirely rest on that description of the Wound although the mechanical effect is to slow down the rate of Endurance recovery and to put the character in danger, and a serious condition, if they acquire a second wound.

I'll say that it's up to the LM and based on the description of the 'wound' acquired during the Hazard how it is removed from the character. I offered something based on a generic situation that met the conditions written in the rules. If you find that doesn't meet your needs you'll have to make up something that suits you, there is no RAW answer.

[beckett]

As there is no exact definition of Wounded except as a result of a piercing blow getting through your armour or being poisoned or suffering from disease we can describe the Wound as anything we like. When struck by a spear it is a wound that breaks the skin causing a small amount of Endurance loss. When poisoned we can describe the Wound as being the effect of the Poison, same for a disease, so suffering from blindness or paralysed for example. Only in the case of a poison as a side effect of a sword, bite or sting is there likely to be endurance damage.

If a wound is treated the mechanical effect is a change in endurance recovery so if there is no endurance loss then if a wound is treated on not has no effect in the game.

Some wound effects (poison or disease) have a limited duration when the mechanical effect is in play. If you are keeping track of time in a detailed manner you maybe able to say the poison from the orc's blade wears off at 2:30 pm but in a less detailed game it may be sufficient to say it wears off in the middle of the afternoon.

The Wound obtained in a Hazard will be described as part of the Hazard and will entirely rest on that description of the Wound although the mechanical effect is to slow down the rate of Endurance recovery and to put the character in danger, and a serious condition, if they acquire a second wound.

I'll say that it's up to the LM and based on the description of the 'wound' acquired during the Hazard how it is removed from the character. I offered something based on a generic situation that met the conditions written in the rules. If you find that doesn't meet your needs you'll have to make up something that suits you, there is no RAW answer.

As I said, a wound from poison is not at issue here.

The definition for Wound is found on page 25 of the revised book.

For the sake of rules consistency and to eliminate vagueness, I'm simply asking if the Consequences of Failure table for Hazards concerning the Wounded line (#6) is an oversight? Because we have a clear ruling on how to remove the Wounded label from the "Heal Wounds" statement found on page 132, it seems logical and in keeping with the RAW that if the challenge posed by the Hazard fails then the hero suffered Endurance loss, but if the failure produced an EYE the hero also suffered a Wound in addition to the Endurance loss. In that way, we have clear guidelines for knowing when the Wound is healed (per the Heal Wound rules on page 132).

To say that when Wounded in a Hazard, it is up to the LM to decide when that Wound is healed seems an odd choice when we have very specific rules for when a Wound can be removed.

[Dunkelbrink]

I agree with Hermes Serpent. My view is that a hero with a Wound who is at full Endurance heals the Wound after a prolonged rest (a good night's sleep), even if he recieved the Wound at full Endurance. The RAW supports this and it is not especially strange; if you're wounded but at full endurance you're at good vigour and the wound is probably just a fleshwound. If you're at 28 out of 30 Endurance and Wounded (treated) you heal the Wound after a night's sleep (and recover 2 End). Why shouldn't you heal your Wound if you're at 30 out of 30 when you go to bed?

I can't see the inconsistency here, Beckett. Or do you mean that a you would need a "safe Place" to heal from this particular Wound? That's not the case (that refers to recovering from Fatigue only).

You might argue that an Eye result on a hazard table should cause a Wound AND Endurance loss. Well, you're free to change the rules to that. But I think that suffering just a Wound could be bad enough, especially if the company is involved in combat Before having the chance to rest. Yes, the single Wound won't matter much if the (otherwise unhurt) companion can rest it away the next night. But it's not inconsistent regarding other rules.