Cursing, Swearing and exclamations in Middle Earth

[Yepesnopes]

Hi everybody,

I typically play humans in TOR and there is something I miss. Cursing, Swearing! and other sort of exclamations.

Obviously in Middle Earth nobody says "For god's sake!" or "Die you filthy orc! Go to hell" or things like "God have mercy" or "May the force be with you".

Can anyone point me towards a source where I can inform myself about it? Do humans use the Valar names for cursing? or to give a blessing? do they mention Iluvatar or Eärendil's star? What about Dwarfs, Elves and Hobbits?

[Aeglosdir]

Not sure if these fit the bill, but Frodo says "Good heavens!" (and then "Good heavens above!") when the conspiracy is unmasked.

When great clouds advance so that Legolas can't make out orc targets across the river by starlight any more (and a "sudden dread" falls on the company) he sighs, "Elbereth Gilthoniel!". (Not "Oh f***!")

And of course, there's Gandalf's "Great Elephants!" in The Hobbit. Always handy when someone hasn't dusted his mantelpiece.

[shipwreck]

"Bless my beard!"

"You're naught but a ninny-hammer!"

"O great glory and splendor!"

"Glory and trumpets!"

"Confusticate and bebother these dwarves!"

"Spoons? Fiddlesticks!"

So the Hobbits have some silly, almost polite exclamations (plus that one from old Gandalf). For Men it's harder to say. There were probably some referential sayings (think Ron Burgundy: 'Great Odin's raven!') among the people, and general insults. If this fun little flash game is remotely historical (which is seems to be), then there might be something there for our Mirkwood cultures to draw on.

"Dog scut! Puny potlicker! Fox beard! Oozing pus wound! You pig filth!"

[cuthalion]

Seconding this.

It's unclear to me, whether, say, a Woodman would know anything of Eru. Presumably, it's more likely one of the Ainur or Maia that is more local/relevant that they worship or seek help from, but my lore isn't deep enough to know which.

Similarly, I find my self as a Woodman saying, 'At your service', on greetings, but it doesn't sound right--too dwarvish, or hobbit-ish. My instinct drives me to go more Anglo-Saxon, but I think that fits better with the Rohan culture, as far as I understand, and I'd have to dive back into the Silmarillion to understand the genesis of the various cultures of men in Wilderland. Tricky . . .

Any pointers by someone more knowledgeable would be super helpful--even if it's a reading list.

[Glorelendil]

I love the idea of building a list of curses, greetings, and common metaphors. Might be a project for a wider Tolkien fanbase.

[zedturtle]

Seconding this.

It's unclear to me, whether, say, a Woodman would know anything of Eru. Presumably, it's more likely one of the Ainur or Maia that is more local/relevant that they worship or seek help from, but my lore isn't deep enough to know which.

Similarly, I find my self as a Woodman saying, 'At your service', on greetings, but it doesn't sound right--too dwarvish, or hobbit-ish. My instinct drives me to go more Anglo-Saxon, but I think that fits better with the Rohan culture, as far as I understand, and I'd have to dive back into the Silmarillion to understand the genesis of the various cultures of men in Wilderland. Tricky . . .

Any pointers by someone more knowledgeable would be super helpful--even if it's a reading list.

The woodmen are basically the same root culture as Rohan; it's just that they're not a horse culture (and neither were the historical Anglo-Saxons).

- - - - -

Everyone should know that "OH BOTHER!" is the worst imaginable curse in Middle Earth.

[cuthalion]

The woodmen are basically the same root culture as Rohan; it's just that they're not a horse culture (and neither were the historical Anglo-Saxons).

Mmmm ... I know what you're saying. But I feel like there was quite a divide when Eorl's (?) folk went north to Gundabad. And more so when they got brought under the wing of Gondor. I notice a lot of 'wine' (saxon for 'friend') in the names of the Kings of the Mark, and other similar things which absolutely reek of Anglo-Saxon culture--and not so much in the other cultures.

Also, the appendix to LOTR seems to differentiate them--calling out first the Beornings, Woodmen, men of the Lake and of Dale (whose speech descends from Adûnaic), and then saying 'From the lands between the Gladden and the Carrock came the folk that were known in Gondor as the Rohirrim . . . They still spoke their ancestral tongue, . . . ' (my edition, p. 1163).

Seems like Woodmen/Beornings/Lakemen/Dale men are one group, the Rohirrim another. Maybe the Rohan supplement will clarify. Happy to be schooled on this if I've gotten it wrong.

One thing I noticed the Rivendell supplement didn't do, was offer an extension on the original table in the Core book which specified the languages of each culture. So, of instance, another similar question I have is do all the Dunedain know Sindarin, or is that unique to those raised under Elrond's care, or other particular circumstances. Completing the table for all cultures is something I think would be helpful.

[Glorelendil]

My understanding is that the Woodmen are a kin-group that split off from the ancestors of the Rohirrim, probably much earlier than Eorl. Beornings, on the other hand, were not a kin-group prior to Beorn uniting them. Some/many of them may also have been descended from the same stock, while others are from other cultures who split from their own kin-groups to settle in the middle vales.

Dale/Esgaroth, on the other hand...I have no idea. Maybe distantly related to Gondor?

Also, sounding like a broken record here, but read "House of the Wolfings". It's clearly Tolkien's inspiration for the cultures of the Vales, and many other elements of Middle-Earth.

[Robin Smallburrow]

In my Fan Supplement in my Resources page is a list of Dwarvish curses ( I forget who provided them)

Robin S

[Dunheved]

Starting from Canon I'd expect each culture to base its curses to the nearest & most pressing dangers and its blessings to its most closely related Valar. I can only remember the Ithielien Rangers in TTT shouting "May the VAlar turn him aside!" when confronted with an approaching berserk Mumakil from Faramir's ambush. (Sam gets his first good look at this point). This is a Gondor culture though.

However, within TOR we should employ our own canon: Woodmen, for instance, might want to give a blessing invoking the Lamp of Balthi; they would have a dislike for Spiders and perhaps Dol Guldur. Dwarves of Erebor revere the Arkenstone and any of many Beards; Lakemen would have grown up with a fundamental antagonism to the Dragon and curse things as worm-like (Wormtongue anyone?). They probably hold the legend of Fram the dragon slayer in high regard. The woodelves are reported as Hating the Spiders of Mirkwood (Hobbit).
and Hobbits? surely they would curse you by wishing that your larder was empty and you ran out of salt