How to handle new players (xp+advancement)

[Yusei]

TOR scales such that a "weak" character can still participate in adventures with more powerful characters.

They can participate, they can survive, but they aren't very useful. There aren't that many common skills to begin with, so there is a chance that the new character will be weaker than his fellow adventurers, even in his strong skills. I've seen it when one of my players grew bored of his character. He created a new one, a "detective" hobbit, but he wasn't even useful for Riddle rolls. The main thing he brought to the party was some more Hope, and the Smoking trait.

It may not be a problem, depending on what the players want from the game, but I suppose it can be a bit frustrating. Not everyone wants to be Merry or Pippin.

[Stormcrow]

TOR scales such that a "weak" character can still participate in adventures with more powerful characters.

They can participate, they can survive, but they aren't very useful.

That's if the only meaningful part of the game is to succeed at skill rolls. There's supposed to be a lot more than that.

[Yusei]

That's if the only meaningful part of the game is to succeed at skill rolls. There's supposed to be a lot more than that.

As often, you're a bit condescending, but while you may know how to roleplay better than I do, I have Tolkien on my side here. In the Hobbit, he separated the hobbit and the dwarves from Gandalf, so that they had stuff to do. In LotR, he separated the hobbits from the more experienced characters, so that they had stuff to do. While doing stuff is only part of the game, it is a huge part.

Besides, the AP system relies on characters doing skill rolls. And while one can enjoy the game without ever gaining a single AP, my players seem to enjoy them quite a bit.

[Glorelendil]

I get what you're saying Yusei, but beginning characters can still succeed at skill rolls, just not as often or against as high of TNs as more advanced characters. And while more advanced characters will want more challenges, that doesn't mean you need high TNs across the board.

Also, advanced characters will generate more preliminary successes; they can help out the new character by throwing those dice his/her way.

But you're right: not everyone wants to play Merry or Pippin. If the player(s) in question would rather "skip the low levels" with catch-up AP/XP there's certainly nothing unethical with doing do. I just think (and I believe Stormcrow would agree with me) that doing so misses some narrative opportunity, and in the long run players might not feel as invested in and attached to their characters or as immersed in the story. That doesn't have to happen, but it can.

[Yusei]

I get what you're saying Yusei, but beginning characters can still succeed at skill rolls, just not as often or against as high of TNs as more advanced characters.

They can succeed, but sometimes they're not even going to roll, because someone else in the group is stronger than they are. Or they will roll, knowing that if they fail, someone else will succeed. It can be frustrating.

Also, advanced characters will generate more preliminary successes; they can help out the new character by throwing those dice his/her way.

Indeed, I love that about TOR.

in the long run players might not feel as invested in and attached to their characters or as immersed in the story. That doesn't have to happen, but it can.

I agree. Giving new characters dozens of XP/APs has its problems too. I don't think there is an easy fix, the LM just has to keep in mind that the new character needs stuff to do, and opportunities to gain APs. I would at least make sure that they have useful, unique traits, and are not of the same culture as an experienced character, so that they can take different virtues and rewards. Also, giving them the one ring to carry to Mordor might help making them feel important.


Regarding my friend and his hobbit: his particularity was that he was supposed to be a good at solving mysteries, but he wasn't better than the others at Riddle or Insight. I think it would be easily fixed by the introduction of a new trait that would allow him to auto-succeed when using Riddle/Insight to solve a mystery. He would still suck at everything else, but he would have stuff to do that others couldn't do.

[Stormcrow]

But you're right: not everyone wants to play Merry or Pippin. If the player(s) in question would rather "skip the low levels" with catch-up AP/XP there's certainly nothing unethical with doing do. I just think (and I believe Stormcrow would agree with me) that doing so misses some narrative opportunity, and in the long run players might not feel as invested in and attached to their characters or as immersed in the story. That doesn't have to happen, but it can.

Exactly. I'm not ordering anyone to play a certain way; I'm pointing out that starting at the beginning should not be off the table, or even a less-desirable route to take.

As for not everyone wanting to play Merry and Pippin: while that's true, it's also true that in a Middle-earth game there will ALWAYS be people who want to play hobbits, even though hobbits are, by definition, less capable than most other types. Middle-earth is a good place to be the underdog. Powerful characters will protect the weaker ones in combat, but the weaker ones will excel in their own niches. And, as Merry and Pippin show, they can also eventually become powerful characters, possibly still around after the previously powerful characters have retired.

Back in the early days of D&D it was common for someone starting a new, 1st level character to adventure fairly deep in the dungeon with a party of higher-level characters. They protected the newbie and he shot up in level from the experience. Players didn't complain that their character didn't have anything to do because early dungeons didn't emphasize pure stats and combat—they were puzzles to be solved. Likewise in The One Ring, if you are going on adventures where there is more to do than just crunch your character's numbers, it doesn't matter if you're less capable than a fellow party member.

If you still fear your numbers making you irrelevant, spend points on being good at something that no one else is. But never rely on being a one-shtick character.

[Glorelendil]

...and two of the Hobbit backgrounds offer the "Clever" trait. Sounds like a riddle-solver to me.

[Majestic]

And, as Merry and Pippin show, they can also eventually become powerful characters, possibly still around after the previously powerful characters have retired.

Or, as in the case of Boromir, they could still be alive once that more powerful character has been killed.

Though Boromir's player is still pissed that he died so soon after a bout of madness.