Persuade rolls from one player to another

[Angelalex242]

See, that's not cool. The shy guy paid /60/ advancement points (and some of his initial xp, most likely) to get to persuasion 6 in the first place. It's obviously extremely important to him his character be persuasive. Why should you let the bombastic, force of personality player overwhelm shy guy because that's real life?

You shouldn't. At some point, you've gotta say 'No, we're doing it shy guy's way, because his character is about as persuasive as 2nd Age Sauron, and you just can't compete.'

[Hermes Serpent]

I believe that most of the issues coming up in this thread are a result of the difference between using skills on NPC's versus using skills on other player's characters. I think we are all on board with a non-persuasive player running a persuasive character and convincing, via the game mechanics, an NPC of their correctness of approach.

However we are in PvP territory when one player starts using their skills to force another player's character to do something. That takes away from the free will of the bullied player to run their character as they see fit.

Generally speaking once there is an element of PvP involved the game is going to go downhill as players start seeking revenge for real or perceived slights to them or their character. That never ends well and unless the GM is able to clamp down on this behaviour it is going to end in the proverbial tears and broken friendships.

You only have to look at any number of threads on general RPG forums to see tales of this sort of play derailing campaign and friendships.

[Glorelendil]

See, that's not cool. The shy guy paid /60/ advancement points (and some of his initial xp, most likely) to get to persuasion 6 in the first place. It's obviously extremely important to him his character be persuasive. Why should you let the bombastic, force of personality player overwhelm shy guy because that's real life?

Um...because I've just never seen a gaming group in which a shy, quiet guy can't voice an opinion and have it taken seriously. Nor have I seen a gaming group in which players couldn't come to peaceful agreement about what to do.

I am as astonished by your description as I would be if you had written, "One guy put all his points into unarmed combat, but another bigger player wrestled him to the ground and insisted that he get his way in the game."

It has nothing to do with where he spent his advancement points. It has everything to do with the fact that one player is treating another rudely.

[Angelalex242]

I guess I've run into ruder gamers then you have, though it seems to me that this proves to be an OOC problem that should be dealt with out of game.

[Majestic]

It has nothing to do with where he spent his advancement points. It has everything to do with the fact that one player is treating another rudely.

And even if it doesn't end up with one player bullying or being rude to another, the bottom line is that it wouldn't be difficult for the GM to remind one player "Remember, his character (the character of the shy, timid guy) is extremely persuasive". That should usually be enough.

But even then, the player being reminded (that the other player character is persuasive) still completely gets to choose to do what he wants.

[HotSnow50]

@HotSnow50. What on earth is wrong with mystified. Don't you understand why I'd use a common English word for not understanding why a player is bullying others into doing things his way?

calm down, I am teasing you. Mystified may be common to you but it is hardly used everyday by the majority of people in either of our countries.

and it's not bullying, it's conflict resolution, at least how I envision it

[HotSnow50]

See, that's not cool. The shy guy paid /60/ advancement points (and some of his initial xp, most likely) to get to persuasion 6 in the first place. It's obviously extremely important to him his character be persuasive. Why should you let the bombastic, force of personality player overwhelm shy guy because that's real life?

You shouldn't. At some point, you've gotta say 'No, we're doing it shy guy's way, because his character is about as persuasive as 2nd Age Sauron, and you just can't compete.'

Agreed... Hope this clears it up all of the mystified readers out there, lol

[HotSnow50]

Generally speaking once there is an element of PvP involved the game is going to go downhill as players start seeking revenge for real or perceived slights to them or their character. That never ends well and unless the GM is able to clamp down on this behaviour it is going to end in the proverbial tears and broken friendships.

Perhaps the friends I play with have heartier friendships than yours do, as this actual event occurred in our session and the usage of a persuade roll wasn't retaliated against, it wasn't even considered a "slight" as you suggested it most certainly would be. On the contrary, the issue was resolved and the player who "lost" the roll RP'ed around the change in decision. Their character didn't lose control, their voice was heard, but just like them roleplaying with conditions like rain or monster attack or any other thing I might introduce that is out of their direct control, they roleplayed with the new direction of the party.

And Elf, it's clear that you don't like the mechanic. That's cool, I understand that. This is all coming down to differing styles of GM/LM, which I don't even find faintly disturbing. I'm not mystified, is what I'm saying. As it's my thread and my intention to bring it up was to talk about possibilities pro and con, I feel that the thread has DEFINITELY sparked up that debate, but, it seems a bit odd to go beyond saying "Well, I wouldn't run it that way if I were in your shoes" into the realm of "It's BAD to do what you're doing." This isn't a game-breaking mechanic... Try to be tolerant of different views, we can all run our games how we'd like to, this was just meant to be a discussion. I hope this is just another instance of intentions being misunderstood over the medium of text.

[Glorelendil]

It's not that I think it's "bad" that you're resolving it that way, it's that I find it perplexing that the problem arises. (And maybe the way you solve it is your best option.)

But I think I put my finger on what feels alien to me, and I suspect to others: it sounds like your players are competing with each other. (Thus Hermes Serpent's allusion to the slippery slope toward PvP.) Maybe they're all best buds in real life and this is how your group has fun, which is totally valid and cool, but it's different from what some of us are used to.

Given that, I don't know if any of our input will be useful for you.

[Hermes Serpent]

@HotSnow50, It certainly sounds, with that extra information, that your players get their role-playing pleasure out of dicking each other over. Not a play style I enjoy and one I wouldn't allow in any game I ran. You're on your own for advice with this one.