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"Out of the ordinary" and "extraordinary" don't necessarily mean getting Great or Extraordinary Successes, but getting these do tend to lead to "out of the ordinary" and "extraordinary" accomplishments.

Consider your reaction to the action. If you would say "ooooh!" or "well done!" or "that was great!" or the like, that's probably "out of the ordinary." If you would drop your mouth open and boggle at the player, or shout "oh my god!" or "no way!" or the like, that's probably "extraordinary."

You can get these reactions from rolling the dice during hair-raising situations, or when the odds are very long—or when extra Success results lead the Loremaster to tell you what a spectacular job you did.

Suppose you roll an Extraordinary Success on a Fatigue test during travel. Ho-hum. There's nothing particularly exciting to tell about it. No Advancement point. Suppose you roll an Extraordinary Success while trying to Inspire a chieftain to grant you lodging. The Loremaster tells you that not only do you get lodging, but you get a feast in your honor and supplies for your upcoming journey into the mountains. The players say "whoa!" and the player making the roll gets an Advancement Point for achieving something extraordinary.

It's not about the dice; it's about WHAT HAPPENS.

The beauty in the way that APs are awarded, where the first one (in a row) is pretty easy to get, and the second and third progressively harder, means you don't really have to worry too much about giving out too many of them. In other words, the mechanics themselves have a built-in balancing factor that prevents abuse or excessive progression.

Majestic wrote:Elf, not a big deal, but hat was Rocmistro, rather than zedturtle

Yeah, unless you're reading my mind and not my posts, that was a bit timey-wimey there. Unless of course you mean my previous expressed opinions on the subject...

Fixed...

Can somebody clarify: When you are discussing AP levels (AP 1, AP 2, AP 3), are the requirements cumulative thresholds? Or just absolute numbers of advancement points you can get in one shot (not to exceed the 3 AP limit)?

In other words, if you get a success and receive 1 AP for it in, say, personality -- and then later do the same, can you then increase your current personality AP points to 2 (1+1=2)? Or are you stuck at AP 1 in that category unless you invoke a trait or roll a tengwar?

By the RAW, you get the 1st AP for a successful common skill usage, 2nd for an "out of the ordinary" success or success which you can reinforce with a trait, and the third for an "Extraordinary" success AND can be reinforced with trait.

Strictly speaking if you got an Extrarodinary success with trait for your first AP and then just regular successes after that, you are stuck with 1 AP in that category.

Rocmistro wrote:By the RAW, you get the 1st AP for a successful common skill usage, 2nd for an "out of the ordinary" success or success which you can reinforce with a trait, and the third for an "Extraordinary" success AND can be reinforced with trait.

Strictly speaking if you got an Extrarodinary success with trait for your first AP and then just regular successes after that, you are stuck with 1 AP in that category.

Ah, got it. It is cumulative. 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Not 1pt, 2pts, 3pts.

I'm not clear on what you mean by cumulative, Dedicemancometh. Perhaps it's easier to view it this way:

The first AP (in any row, so we could make it Personality, as in your example) is easy to get, as it only requires an ordinary success.

The second AP (for the Personality row, meaning using the Common Skills of Awe, Inspire, or Persuade) is a little harder to get. You have to have a better result than just succeeding at a Task or Test. You have to have that "out of the ordinary" success, or you have to have an ordinary success that you can reinforce with one of the character's Traits. And the third one is yet harder/more difficult to achieve.

So after an Adventuring Phase, characters should have quite a few of those first boxes checked, but they'll likely have less of the second and third boxes accomplished.

[Later Edit]
I suppose that could be viewed as "cumulative", as the accomplishments are cumulatively harder to do.

I think I might see what you're getting at. You don't get 1 AP for the first one, and then earn 2 AP when you get the second. You simply check the boxes on the character sheet (getting one each time), then at the end you add them all up and get a total.

I think he means "cumulative" as in: if you start the game fresh, and your first roll is a great success with invoked trait, then you don't get to mark it down because you first need to score a simple success, and then a great success or invoked trait. The order is important. Is that true? If so, it makes advancement significantly slower. I assumed I could have my players mark the third diamond without first bubbling in the preceding ones.

snapeye wrote:I think he means "cumulative" as in: if you start the game fresh, and your first roll is a great success with invoked trait, then you don't get to mark it down because you first need to score a simple success, and then a great success or invoked trait. The order is important. Is that true? If so, it makes advancement significantly slower. I assumed I could have my players mark the third diamond without first bubbling in the preceding ones.

The way I would do that is still just to mark off the first diamond - you've simply over exceeded the qualifying criteria to get the first AP check.