Great Might vs Runes of Victory

[Morgoth]

All attack rolls aimed at the creature not scoring a Gandalf see the quality of their results reduced by one level: a success becomes a miss, a great success becomes an ordinary success, an extraordinary success become a great result.

When you attack using a weapon possessing this Quality you score an automatic hit on a Gandalf and also on an Eye of Sauron result.

So let's say you're attacking an enemy who has Great Might using a weapon with Runes of Victory, and the feat die is an Eye, but you get no Tengwars. Do you hit, or miss?

[Hermes Serpent]

An automatic hit doesn't fall on the levels of success gradient. It goes Failure, Success, Great Success, Extraordinary Success. Automatic success doesn't feature in the steps but lies outside it so it cannot be reduced by one level.

[Glorelendil]

Yeah, it doesn't say "an automatic hit sees the level of it's success..." just "a gandalf". Runes of Victory still hit on an Eye.

[Morgoth]

That's how I ruled it in the game, but mainly because I was being nice, and the players were having some bad luck (ok, so maybe I wasn't being too nice... after all, they were fighting a Daughter of Ungoliant, but that's besides the point).

Although, if you got an Eye and a great success, would Great Might still reduce it to a normal success?

[Glorelendil]

No. Runes of Victory do not make an Eye become a Gandalf, it merely makes an Eye auto-succeed, in the same way a Gandalf does.

If RoV made an Eye equivalent to a Gandalf then it would also trigger Pierce, not just autosuccess. And it doesn't.

[Morgoth]

... if you got an Eye and a great success, would Great Might still reduce it to a normal success?

No. Runes of Victory do not make an Eye become a Gandalf, it merely makes an Eye auto-succeed, in the same way a Gandalf does.

If RoV made an Eye equivalent to a Gandalf then it would also trigger Pierce, not just autosuccess. And it doesn't.

I'm slightly confused by your answer. You answered "no" to my question, but then it seems like you're arguing against that.

But either way, I realize that the Eye with RoV is not the same as a Gandalf. But that's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is if Great Might reduces an extraordinary success to a great success (with an Eye) and a great success to a normal success (with an Eye)? If the answer is "Yes, Great Might does, in-fact, reduce the level of success when you roll an Eye," then why doesn't it reduce the level of success of the hit from an Eye if you only have a regular success (aka turning it into a miss).

[Dunkelbrink]

I'd say you can rule this very rare conflict of the rules the way you want. Strictly speaking though, and the way I'd go myself, is that only a Gandalf works without being affected by Great Might. If you get an "automatic hit" with an Eye, that doesn't help you since your success is turned into a miss. Only if you score at Great success or better you'll hit, and then with lesser effect. The Enchanted quality still helps a bit though, since the Eye counts as a hit and not zero; that could become important if you at the same time score a Tengwar (and therefore a great success.)

[Glorelendil]

Oh oh oh....ignore everything I said. I've been misreading the Great Might ability.

EDIT: My new improved reading is that you treat an Eye just like any other hit. I.e., you subtract one success, and miss completely with no Tengwars.