Hatred and Elf-Lights

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Blubbo Baggins
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Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by Blubbo Baggins » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:34 pm

Question for Gareth and/or any LMs and how you would rule on this:

Say Orcs with Hatred (Dwarves) are attacking a company with a Dwarf, as well as a Mirkwood Elf.
Naturally, the Orcs will focus on the Dwarf (at least, the LM may split up the Orcs between the PCs, but replace Orcs that fall from the Dwarf fastest, or make sure to always have 3 Orcs against it).

Now, let's say the Elf uses his Elf-Lights, which states that all talking creatures are drawn to it (I think attribute level 6 or less), or must spend 1 point of Hate to ignore it.

Which takes precedence? The Orcs Hatred (Dwarves) or being drawn to the light? I would assume that, if the Orcs have only 1 Hate left (especially if they are Craven) they will go toward the light thus attacking the Elf (it is in their favor not to ignore it, and lose their last Hate, becoming Weary or running away). But if the Orcs have more than 1 Hate left, the LM can use their own discretion.

What if the Elf is already engaged by 3 Orcs? The other Orcs who can see the light (if at night this would be all of them) are still drawn toward it - they need to spend 1 Hate if they attack the Dwarf or another PC, right?
It would make sense that, in battle, the Orcs aren't just not going to attack even if they're drawn to attack an Elf they can't reach because the Elf is basically surrounded. However, it seems like the Orcs who can't reach the Elf this round are doomed to lose 1 Hate, or to not attack and try to go toward the Elf (which wouldn't quite make sense, since they are drawn out of hatred for the light I assume, rather than being hypnotized).

To complicate it further:
What if instead of a (Hated) Dwarf it is a Dunedain, using Royalty Revealed? What if both the Dunedain and Elf are Forward, and the Elf has his light? Seems like a nice catch 22 for them poor Orcs. :lol:

zedturtle
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by zedturtle » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:10 pm

I would go in initiative order if there's not a clear priority. So if the dwarf is forward and the elf is defensive, then the dwarf would get three first, and then the elf would get three, and then any remaining would get distributed among the other heroes.
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Blubbo Baggins
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by Blubbo Baggins » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:38 pm

That makes sense. Initiative of course.

Would you say that Hatred (X) has a stronger pull in most cases than the Elf-light? Meaning, if there aren't enough foes they will focus on their hated race, as long as the loss of 1 Hate doesn't make them Weary (or run).

Again, this situation could all be up to the LM, but I'm curious what Gareth thinks.

zedturtle
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by zedturtle » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:07 pm

Blubbo Baggins wrote:That makes sense. Initiative of course.

Would you say that Hatred (X) has a stronger pull in most cases than the Elf-light? Meaning, if there aren't enough foes they will focus on their hated race, as long as the loss of 1 Hate doesn't make them Weary (or run).

Again, this situation could all be up to the LM, but I'm curious what Gareth thinks.
I would think that Elf Lights is stronger, since Hatred just makes the adversary attacks favoured. Elf Light has specific applicability; Hatred just benefits the adversary to attack that thing.

Agreed that it'd be nice to here a definitive chain of compulsions from Francesco et al. but whatever you decide is what you decide. You can always change it up later.
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Mytholder
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by Mytholder » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:01 pm

To be honest - I'd probably rule differently depending on what the current situation was. Is the Dwarf about to be killed by the orcs, and the elf's desperately trying to save him? Then the Elf-Light takes precedence and the orcs don't attack the dwarf. Is it the start of a fight and the dwarf's already charging the orcs? Then the orcs get to take a few swings first.
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Blubbo Baggins
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by Blubbo Baggins » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:59 pm

Thanks Gareth,

So would you say the same for Royalty Revealed? (Since that Virtue says enemies will attempt to attack the Dunedain whenever they can... meaning they do so and ignore the Elf-Lights?)

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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by Falenthal » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:07 pm

I think there's no clear answer to this. What feels more dramatic for the situation should take precedence over anything else. I don't think there's any kind of relation like Stone>Scissors>Paper, such as "Royalty wins Lights that win Hatred".

Blubbo Baggins
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by Blubbo Baggins » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:35 pm

Cool, thanks. Ultimately I just wanted to make sure that, because of the conflict of interest for foes, there wasn't a rule issue.

zedturtle
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by zedturtle » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:36 pm

Blubbo Baggins wrote:Thanks Gareth,

So would you say the same for Royalty Revealed? (Since that Virtue says enemies will attempt to attack the Dunedain whenever they can... meaning they do so and ignore the Elf-Lights?)
First, let me say that I agree with Falenthal. But, if you do want some hard and fast rules, I think keying into what Gareth said about the situation affecting the ruling. That's why I suggested going in Initiative Order... that way the adversaries respond to the most aggressive members of the company first, and it encourages those people who are trying to draw enemies to take riskier stances in order to make sure they get their full allotment.
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Blubbo Baggins
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Re: Hatred and Elf-Lights

Post by Blubbo Baggins » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:25 am

zedturtle wrote: First, let me say that I agree with Falenthal. But, if you do want some hard and fast rules, I think keying into what Gareth said about the situation affecting the ruling. That's why I suggested going in Initiative Order... that way the adversaries respond to the most aggressive members of the company first, and it encourages those people who are trying to draw enemies to take riskier stances in order to make sure they get their full allotment.
Agreed. Thanks again for all the input.

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