The Battle of Five Armies

[Glorelendil]

I would suggest that another thread devolving into attacking/defending the Peter Jackson movies probably isn't constructive.

[Cawdorthane]

A far as The Lord of Rings movie trilogy goes I don't feel the Tolkien family has much to complain about. A movie based on a book cannot be 100% faithful to source material. I feel the LoTRs movies was about as close as Hollywood could/will get. And the fact they snubbed Jackson was just plain rudeness.

Beran, it is better in life to check one's facts before saying, writing or posting criticisms of people you do not know and of facts of which you are unaware. I am sure that you meant well and intended no disrespect. But if you had read the Le Monde interview of Christopher Tolkein in 2012 where Christopher Tolkein explained the way the Producers of the PJ Films tried to avoid paying the profit share due to the Tolkein Estate under the film rights contract, you would have had a greater insight as to why the Tolkeins did not want to meet anyone who had anything to do with the films.

I am sure all who have read the books and seen the films will have their own opinions as to the desirability of PJ's changes, as we are all entitled to, and I certainly do not want to start a flame-war on that topic. But for my part, I can well understand why a son who is literary editor for his father's Estate is particularly entitled to his own strong views on the aesthetics and merits of so-called 'artistic licence'...

Personally, much as I liked the films, as I now read The Hobbit to my 6 and 9 year old daughters, the films swiftly pale by comparison with Tolkein's books. For me it is like comparing eating an okay meal of take away food (choose your own preferred poison) on the one hand, with sitting down to a finely cooked and presented Christmas Feast surrounded by your family and closest friends on the other. Both are satisfying in a way, but one will leave you hungry in a matter of hours, whereas the other you can savour and reflect upon with immense pleasure for long, long afterwards.

cheers
Mark

[Glorelendil]

For me it is like comparing eating an okay meal of take away food (choose your own preferred poison) on the one hand, with sitting down to a finely cooked and presented Christmas Feast surrounded by your family and closest friends on the other. Both are satisfying in a way, but one will leave you hungry in a matter of hours, whereas the other you can savour and reflect upon with immense pleasure for long, long afterwards.

So true.

When I was in middle school I once had an entire meal of McDonald's fries. Bought about six large fries, dumped them all onto my tray in a colossal pile of greasy, salty goodness, and chowed down with both hands.

I still reminisce about that magical experience.

[Beran]

Beran, it is better in life to check one's facts before saying, writing or posting criticisms of people you do not know and of facts of which you are unaware. I am sure that you meant well and intended no disrespect. But if you had read the Le Monde interview of Christopher Tolkein in 2012 where Christopher Tolkein explained the way the Producers of the PJ Films tried to avoid paying the profit share due to the Tolkein Estate under the film rights contract, you would have had a greater insight as to why the Tolkeins did not want to meet anyone who had anything to do with the films.

Take your own advice, as you don't know me. I meant exactly what I said. I have read the article in which you are referring to. And I highly doubt that the dubious decision made by the studio execs to try and weasel out of paying what was due to the Tolkien family and estate had anything to do with PJ. For all we know PJ wanted to apologize for the studios poor behavior. Besides as I remember in the article he (Tolkien) spent most of his time complaining about the changes that were made and the money was just mentioned in passing on the side. But, then this is just my interpretation of the situation.

[Arkat]

All in all I enjoy PJ’s films. But there are moments when he does unspeakable things to the stories, that makes me want to tear my hair out. The movies could have been brilliant cinema epics, but unfortunately they have too many flaws. I realize that you sometimes have to make changes to translate a book into cinema, but a lot of the changes that PJ made to the stories don’t make any sense at all. My top grudges:

- Making Theoden a sniveling coward in Two Towers. Even after Gandalf breaks Saruman’s spell. The rohirrim advanced to Helms Deep to meet the orcs, not to hide from them for Pete’s sake! In what possible way does changing this make it a better movie?

- Elves at Helms Deep? Another piss on the rohirrim. Thank you PJ. You have just turned a heroic last stand into a story about a bunch of cowards saved by elves ex machina.

- Can someone tell me why Azog is in the Hobbit movies? How does his survival make the story better? I honestly don’t understand the point of this unless he wants to make Thorin a lesser man. Yeah, that is a good idea…not.

- Radagast? No, just no. All my players have been told that they have to un-see the Radagast of the movies. Any mention of rabbit sleighs will be punished harshly.

- Bilbo and Smaug. So in the book Bilbo scouts the halls of Erebor and encounters Smaug. They have a chat and Smaug can’t decide what kind of person this is. He smells funny and he can’t see him. After trying to toast the burglar, he decides that this must be some trickery of the men of the lake and that they must be punished for it. Cue burning of the Esgaroth. In the movie Smaug encounters Bilbo, have a chat, then encounters a party of dwarves, chase the dwarves around Erebor and tries his best to kill them. He fails and then… decides to torch Esgaroth! Man, what? Soooo we are supposed to believe a dragon decides to leave a party of dwarves with his treasure while he takes out his frustration on a distant town? Right! Again, PJ just mangled the narrative for no apparent reason.

- And finally, frikkin superhero, ninja elves. I swear PJ has made elves the jedis of middle earth. Pompous posers.

Ok, steam vented. Now I can go back and enjoy both the movies and the game.

[Andrew]

I would suggest that another thread devolving into attacking/defending the Peter Jackson movies probably isn't constructive.

And will be a sure-fire way of getting it locked.

[Cawdorthane]

Take your own advice, as you don't know me. I meant exactly what I said. I have read the article in which you are referring to.

Then I respectfully suggest that you re-read the interview which plainly showed his angst at what occurred both artistically and financially. But there was and is no need to be disrespectful to Christopher Tolkien, he is as entitled to his opinion as you are to yours. Neither you nor I know of PJ's precise role in the attempted royalties rip-off of the Tolkien Estate, but as he was a producer of each the 3 LotR films as well as the principal director, if he was wholly ignorant of it (it was a 7.5% share of the net profit after all...), then that would be surprising but stranger things have happened, so let's all hope that that was in fact the case. Nor do you or I know what motivated PJ's attempt to approach the Tolkiens.

I did not, and do not intend criticism of PJ, his films, you or anyone else. I hoped that my post made that intent rather plain. I admire PJ and enjoyed the films and look forward to the film with the "THE". But if anyone is entitled to have an emotional investment in Tolkien's legacy and artistic integrity and to be defensive of them, then that is not you, me, nor PJ, but it is Christopher Tolkien.

So let's move on and enjoy some TOR

cheers
Mark

[Jon Hodgson]

I would suggest that another thread devolving into attacking/defending the Peter Jackson movies probably isn't constructive.

Agreed.

This thread is closed.