Travel Fatigue and Traits

[bluejay]

I really enjoyed the way that the Revised Rules streamlined and unified some of the rule systems, particularly bringing encounter and travel prep in line with pre-combat Battle checks as Preliminary Rolls. I would think the next step would be to bring Travel more in line with Prolonged Actions and allow Great and Extraordinary successes to work in a similar manner.

While I've never come up against this in my games (as none of my PCs have Hardy) I think it would be quite a struggle to justify allowing them to auto-succeed on any travel rolls except the most routine. Travel is supposed to be fairly gruelling and can often have a significant impact on the game (think about The Watch on the Heath for example). We're clearly told that Traits should never unbalance the game whereas personally I'd see anything that auto-succeeds on Travel fatigue rolls as an exceptional advantage far outweighing most of the Cultural Blessings and on a par with the better Cultural Rewards. The problem for me is that the description of Hardy is pretty specific in saying that's exactly what It does.

I can understand why the game has deliberately avoided making Traits into 'Feat-like' constructs with lots of small modifiers and clear mechanical game effects however I think this is a situation where it might be better to resolve it in that way. Instead of an auto-success perhaps reduce the number of Travel rolls required or reduce the TN of Travel rolls.

Just a couple of thoughts here...

[zedturtle]

Well, they are starting to move this way, with the Ranger's ability to help others on a Journey on a Great or Extraordinary Success. That's something that invoking a Trait would short-circuit. I'm hard-pressed to think of other ways to encourage rolling... it already provides the benefit of potential APs so advancement is right out. Maybe on an Extraordinary Success they receive a Bonus Die... it kind of steps on the Lore preparatory roll, but would encourage rolls for anyone who had two dice.

[MattG]

We had the same issue some time ago for a Woodman with Hardy traveling through Mirkwood. We’ve been house ruling on that Trait. PC with Hardy, if not Weary has 50% journey’s fatigue checks less rounding up in one's favor. It's not the best compromise, but so far it's working.

[Stormcrow]

Remember that a character that uses a Trait to automatically succeed is denying themselves Advancement Points.

By the original travel rules, you'd probably only ever be able to get the first movement advancement point, and only once per adventuring phase. The revised rules are a little more permissive, but you'd still only be able to claim up to three points per adventuring phase. Otherwise, the advancement point argument doesn't apply.

[Majestic]

They also are taking away the chance to get a Superior or Extraordinary success (the opportunity for their character to really shine).

Is there any benefit in obtaining a superior or extraordinary success on a Travel test besides gaining Advancement Points?
How do you interpret such lucky dice rolls when travel is concerned?

One benefit to obtaining a superior or extraordinary success is that the player can narrate how they accomplished something remarkable or impressive. I realize that's mostly just fluff, but again - when you reinforce that Travel roll with the Hardy trait - it's a way of getting that (otherwise tough to accomplish) third Advancement Point.

[zedturtle]

Remember that a character that uses a Trait to automatically succeed is denying themselves Advancement Points.

By the original travel rules, you'd probably only ever be able to get the first movement advancement point, and only once per adventuring phase. The revised rules are a little more permissive, but you'd still only be able to claim up to three points per adventuring phase. Otherwise, the advancement point argument doesn't apply.

But the same argument could be made for any of the skill groups. And to look at in a particularly mechanical way, Journeys provide more opportunities to gain Movement APs than Encounters do for Custom or Personality and certainly more than Combat provides for Vocation.

[Stormcrow]

But the same argument could be made for any of the skill groups.

Exactly. The problem simply doesn't exist. Because it's so unlikely you'll get any advancement points from routine fatigue tests, you're not missing out on much by invoking an automatic action with the Hardy trait. Likewise with, say, invoking Fair-spoken every time you introduce yourself with Courtesy. Someone who is Fair-spoken SHOULD be able to introduce themselves in a routine way without any risk of failure, but the ever-increasing demands of advancement points means it's very unlikely that you'll get more than one from this tactic per adventuring phase unless you come up with something extraordinary to reach that second point. How many extraordinary Fair-spoken introductions can you think of?

And to look at in a particularly mechanical way, Journeys provide more opportunities to gain Movement APs than Encounters do for Custom or Personality and certainly more than Combat provides for Vocation.

*shrug* You can garner a maximum of three points, with a lax Loremaster who lets any old invocation earn advancement points.

There are only metagaming arguments to blocking the use of Hardy. You want players to experience the mechanics of gaining Fatigue on journeys. You don't like a player "getting away" with never having to roll for something that everyone else is rolling for. For my money, someone who is Hardy CAN travel routinely without tiring. That's what Hardy means.

[zedturtle]

*shrug* You can garner a maximum of three points, with a lax Loremaster who lets any old invocation earn advancement points.

Hmmm... maybe this is a playstyle thing, but you can earn two AP in any category without having to have a lax Loremaster at all. Your first Fatigue Test might well be your first AP in the movement category in each Adventuring Phase. And it should be pretty easy to convince a Loremaster that if you did take your chances and rolled an Extraordinary Success that you should be rewarded for doing so, if you could have easily used a relevant Trait to auto-succeed instead.

There are only metagaming arguments to blocking the use of Hardy. You want players to experience the mechanics of gaining Fatigue on journeys. You don't like a player "getting away" with never having to roll for something that everyone else is rolling for. For my money, someone who is Hardy CAN travel routinely without tiring. That's what Hardy means.

I think you're either seriously misunderstanding my posts or misattributing things that others have said to me. I'm perfectly okay with a player invoking Traits to succeed at Fatigue tests, I'm simply trying to point why a Dwarf (which will assuredly have Travel 3) might choose to roll the dice instead.

[Hélend]

For Good or Extraordinary Successes, I have been giving the player a lower Difficulty on his next Fatigue test or Corruption test. A character who invokes a trait to avoid making the Fatigue test at all will miss this potential benefit as well as missing out on Advancement points, so I would consider it self-balancing, though none of my current players selected Hardy.

[bluejay]

Well it's important to note that by skipping Fatigue tests characters are also avoiding the risk of a Hazard. This is why I consider it 'too good' and hence (for me) it is unbalancing to the game and therefore too powerful as an automatic success for Travelling.