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I don't think this competes with either Roc's Noldor or my Barding archer, but it's still fun:

Man of the Lake
Body: 6, Wits: 2
Sword: 3
Valour: 3
Wisdom: 4
Great Shield, Superior Reinforced
Sword, Runes of Victory (EoS = automatic success)
Shield Fighting, Fell-handed, Fell-handed

Shield Fighting does an average of 4.33 extra damage with each sword hit. Runes of Victory dramatically increases hit rate. Fell-handed serves double duty, increasing both sword and shield damage.

A normal hit (no tengwars) that procs the shield still does 26 damage.

Some good stuff there Glorendil.

Just doing some very basic probability I note that the Called Shot is better once you have five dice. At that point the chance of throwing at least one six is around 60% which beats the 5/9 (roughly 56%) chance of rolling at least 8, 9, 10 or G on two feat dice. For six dice (which two archers in my group now have) the chance of rolling at least one six becomes about 67%. Of course I'm not sure how that works with Biting Dart... Do both rolls have to be Called Shots or can one be or does it preclude Called Shots? If a Called Shot with a Biting Dart requires both rolls to have at least one six then yeah the odds go down significantly.

Of course I'm not taking into account other aspects (such as achieving the result necessary to trigger a piercing blow but still missing the attack roll).

Anyway really interesting conversation and I appreciate the work you (and everyone on this thread) are doing.

bluejay wrote:Some good stuff there Glorendil.

Just doing some very basic probability I note that the Called Shot is better once you have five dice. At that point the chance of throwing at least one six is around 60% which beats the 5/9 (roughly 56%) chance of rolling at least 8, 9, 10 or G on two feat dice. For six dice (which two archers in my group now have) the chance of rolling at least one six becomes about 67%. Of course I'm not sure how that works with Biting Dart... Do both rolls have to be Called Shots or can one be or does it preclude Called Shots? If a Called Shot with a Biting Dart requires both rolls to have at least one six then yeah the odds go down significantly.

I was thinking about that exact question as I was writing the post: how does Biting Dart interact with Called Shot? If it's "only one of the rolls needs a tengwar" then Biting Dart is even more OP than it already is. (EIGHT dice with skill 4?) But if both of them need a tengwar then it's worse and you'd never use it.

Hey EC, the more I think about this, the more I think enchanted items should not be included in a character optimization study. (At least not a first draft).

Enchanted items, moreso than say, D&D, fall squarely within the dominion of the Loremaster's whimsy. It's not like heroes will be purchasing famous arms and armour on the open market like you do in 3.5 or 4. Thus, I don't think it's in the DNA of character optimization, which is really an analysis and presentation of the hero's best choices at various decision points throughout his/her career. Put simply, it's unlikely he's ever going to get to choose biting dart over superiour grievous.

If we're just theorycrafting then, sure, ok, have at it.

Rocmistro wrote:Hey EC, the more I think about this, the more I think enchanted items should not be included in a character optimization study. (At least not a first draft).

Enchanted items, moreso than say, D&D, fall squarely within the dominion of the Loremaster's whimsy. It's not like heroes will be purchasing famous arms and armour on the open market like you do in 3.5 or 4. Thus, I don't think it's in the DNA of character optimization, which is really an analysis and presentation of the hero's best choices at various decision points throughout his/her career. Put simply, it's unlikely he's ever going to get to choose biting dart over superiour grievous.

If we're just theorycrafting then, sure, ok, have at it.

Yeah, totally agree. BUT YOU STARTED IT!

I have an idea: let's start an LM-less PbP that is just death matches between builds. Fixed XP, design a character in secret, email both to a neutral 3rd party (e.g., no optimizing for a known opponent), and have at it.

I volunteer to run the fights.

Glorelendil wrote:

Rocmistro wrote:Hey EC, the more I think about this, the more I think enchanted items should not be included in a character optimization study. (At least not a first draft).

Enchanted items, moreso than say, D&D, fall squarely within the dominion of the Loremaster's whimsy. It's not like heroes will be purchasing famous arms and armour on the open market like you do in 3.5 or 4. Thus, I don't think it's in the DNA of character optimization, which is really an analysis and presentation of the hero's best choices at various decision points throughout his/her career. Put simply, it's unlikely he's ever going to get to choose biting dart over superiour grievous.

If we're just theorycrafting then, sure, ok, have at it.

Yeah, totally agree. BUT YOU STARTED IT!

I have an idea: let's start an LM-less PbP that is just death matches between builds. Fixed XP, design a character in secret, email both to a neutral 3rd party (e.g., no optimizing for a known opponent), and have at it.

Yeah I know, totally my fault. Can you hear that whisper on the wind? That's my long distance mea culpa.

The deathmatch sounds great. As soon as work gets a little more normal, we'll follow up on this!

zedturtle wrote:I volunteer to run the fights.

... And then tell us all how it turned out, right?

Oh, I'm thinking public combat. Here if Jon gives us the ok, elsewhere if not.

Glorelendil wrote:I was thinking about that exact question as I was writing the post: how does Biting Dart interact with Called Shot? If it's "only one of the rolls needs a tengwar" then Biting Dart is even more OP than it already is. (EIGHT dice with skill 4?) But if both of them need a tengwar then it's worse and you'd never use it.

So Francesco has officially chimed in on this and yes you need a tengwar on both rolls BUT that would result in TWO piercing results. With six dice in Bow that can be achieved 36% of the time which is darned scary!