Balancing Virtues and Rewards

[Deadmanwalking]

I think you're undervaluing Bowman of the Guild a bit. Sure, spending Hope is a potentially high price, but with Damage 5 (very doable on a Man of the Lake) you can spend Hope and simply kill Orc Soldiers and other 8-12 Endurance foes on what would otherwise be a normal hit. There are a heck of a lot of 12 Endurance foes (as you noted on Grievous in your optimization guide), and even more at 8-11 making this a non-negligible advantage.

It's less useful vs. single large foes, but it makes you an extremely reliable minion sweeper. It's not quite as good at higher skill ratings, admittedly (though it depends on what you're fighting to some degree...see below), but 6s never become a sure thing, so it remains definitively useful if you want to make 'one shot, one kill' your motto.

Heck, now that I think about it, with Damage 6 (or Grievous and any damage at all), it can make even 20 Endurance foes a sure two hit kill (you spend the Hope is you didn't roll a 6 on either shot)...or even a one hit kill if you rolled a 6 on the attack and have both Grievous and good damage (so...maybe not less useful as skill goes up...by the time 6s are more likely, you may well be dealing with a better class of minion).

It's definitely not the best Virtue in the game by any means, but it seems a solid workaday Virtue to me. Especially given the additional +1 Standing (not that Standing matters all that much, but it's nice to have).

For the record, I pretty much agree other than that (though I think Art of Disappearing is more LM dependent than it is bad per se), just thought I'd present an argument for Bowman of the Guild.

[Falenthal]

Ok I realize I'm late to this and you're not talking about it, but Brazen Armour is excellent and needs no fixing.

Since spears and arrows tend to be in the 12-14 TN range (for enemies), 2d is all you need. Meanwhile, Axes, Hammers and Swords, which all tend to be in the 16-18 range, you get 4d, which is the boost you need.

Look at the sim I ran. 2nd post.

Short version: the TNs are easier, but you get pierced more often.

Did you account for Hope expenditures in your sim? I find that Hope to prevent a Wound is a pretty good bet...

So that Brazen Armour might become one of those Rewards that work with "spend a Hope point to...", in this case referring to "avoid a Wound".

[Yepesnopes]

I agree that some virtues and rewards are not appealing to players and they will benefit from some "lifting". Nevertheless, the designers of the game already reworked some rewards and virtues for the revised edition of TOR. I would doubt that they would change anything more in an hypothetical 2nd edition of the game.

I think that the rest is for each of us to house rule at our own taste.

[Falenthal]

Oh, I wasn't actively promoting the inclusion of Rearward stance in Shadow Bane, just saying that such a thing would make some sense thematically and mechanically. It's the kind of design solution that I think would work.

What about this:

"[A] dark shape, like a cloud and yet not a cloud, for it moved far more swiftly, came out of the blackness in the South, and sped towards the Company, blotting out all light as it approached. Soon it appeared as a great winged creature, blacker than the pits in the night....

Suddenly the great bow of Lórien sang. Shrill went the arrow from the elven-string."

"'The Winged Messenger!' cried Legolas. 'I shot at him with the bow of Galadriel above Sarn Gebir, and I felled him from the sky. He filled us all with fear. What new terror is this?'

'One that you cannot slay with arrows,' said Gandalf. 'You only slew his steed. It was a good deed;

When performing a Called Shot with a bow (short or long), the companion can add a Success Die to the roll (up to a maximum of 6) and ignore all Hindrances penalties. This ability can be used a number of times up to the Wisdom of the elf per Adventure Phase.

In fact, the description about Severely Hindered matches the quote most used to describe the ability of elves to hit with a bow:

Target is at long range, is very small (a bird), or protected by darkness

the arrows of the elves that could hit a bird's eye in the dark

[Angelalex242]

I think the reason it's hope that fuels magic in TOR is that elves are supposed to be fading, and hopeless elves simply ship themselves off to Valinor.

Back in the 1st age, they probably could do this stuff wisdom times per day, no hope needed. Even in the 2nd age, it was probably half wisdom times per day, or half wisdom+1 times per day, or so. It's only in the third age things get so damn hard for elves.

If the elf has to use hope to do anything remotely interesting, then they either ship themselves off to Valinor for using it, or to the halls of Mandos for not using it. Their choice.